BobbyBroccoli - 2021-05-12
What started as a forum post snowballed into a national news story. This is BOG.TXT. Part 2 out now: https://youtu.be/dGVjfksIqUk RIP Grichka and Igor Bogdanoff 0:00 Chapter 1 4:16 Chapter 2 11:03 Chapter 3 18:03 Chapter 4 25:53 Chapter 5 I'm on sites! : https://www.patreon.com/bobbybroccoli https://twitter.com/bobbybroccole All songs used are listed chronologically at the end of the video. Namaste by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Artist: http://audionautix.com/ Bogdanoff affair
"this email spread like wildfire in the academic community" i love how a love for gossip is a pillar of all human interactions
humans are social creatures!
@@kaib.7564 Most humans are social creatures! ☺
@BG101UK What do you mean by that?
@Kai B. Probably that most humans are social creatures.
@enzo queijão They emphasized 'most', implying that a small group of people would not be. But even the most introverted, antisocial humans rely on people, because we are a social species. Humans are not born with sharp teeth and claws to ward off predators, so we rely on one another to survive. This is deeply rooted within everyone, because, in the past, isolation meant death. Isolation nowadays can lead to depression, anxiety, feelings of loneliness and even suicidality. And isolation is often a symptom of disorders and abnormalities- its simply not healthy to be alone. Of course, this doesn't mean that everyone loves to engage in gossip, or that everyone would not think critically about spreading a silly little email. But humans are social.
10/10 would’ve read the nonsense papers and pretended to understand everything out of sheer imposter anxiety
Then you would actually be an imposter though.
@@alexburnett5185 hence the anxiety
i have pretty bad imposter syndrome (i’m a computer scientist) and i’ve certainly pretended to understand papers and whatnot that i didn’t but those brothers’ paper was like if someone whose only ever used a mobile phone was trying to explain the intricacies of low level hardware having only heard about it from pop culture.
That's exactly what bad science banks on
@@dylanoonk6456it's not impostor syndrome because you actually don't understand and pretend you do. Quite the opposite
Seeing the result of that plastic surgery just makes me sad. I’m glad you covered that the way you did, acknowledging it without making fun of it. Body dysmorphia is a horrible thing
I saw a picture of them prior to this video, and somehow managed to recognize them at the very beginning. It’s very sad though.
@Elliott Dresser I think they look kinda cool....
@M Q see, the thing is, they took the features that made them attractive in the first place and had them exaggerated to the point that they were no longer attractive. Like, you have full lips and a well-defined chin; what happens if you exaggerate that chin until you look like a cheesy comic book character, and inflate your lips to be twice the size? doesn't turn out so well, it seems
@Techno Turnovers At least they stand out in a crowd. Which for people like them, I think thats what they wanted anyway...
@@technoturnovers7072 yeah its easy for the mentally healthy to think logically
As someone with an advanced degree in cultural studies, I can confirm that Sokal's troll paper would have fit right in to a journal like that. He even wrote an absolute meme of a title. I love it.
Could very easily happen in sociology and has been done before... and Im a sociologist!
You should dye your hair in that blueish rainbow color again, it compliments your glasses.
@Erik Eriks …what?
@Avery Teoda I think they're making a really sad reference to the whole "blue haired feminists in sociology" meme.
@Jane no I found her socials and know what she looks like
“The author should correct several typos in the paper. As an examle…” well done.
Yikes, I missed that twice!
That is the biggest issue with trying to correct someone, you can just as easily fuck up like them and it looks petty to be criticizing someone for a common mistake.
@Luiz Alex Phoenix Not in this context. Papers have much higher writing standards than an editorial note. It makes sense to spend some amount of effort correcting typos in papers, not so much in notes that'll only be read a handful of times. I wouldn't call it a criticism either, or at least not petty; the goal is not to make the author look bad, it's to have the typos corrected to make the paper better.
Isn't the "As an examle..." written here literally an example of a typo made in the paper? It's followed up by a comma followed by an "and" which would also make no sense until you realise that they are showing that the Bog Twins mixed French with English in their paper and wrote "and la". The people correcting them made no typo themselves.
@@mrshadowduh9394 it was a year ago, so I don’t remember it exactly. But I do remember it and would have made sure it wasn’t an example through context before laughing at them for it.
Activate Quantum Immortality.
What is ze next styep of your mastyerplan?
@Middle-Aged Climber Crashing this market...
With no survivors.
Just in time.. Farewell Grichka, see you in the quantum dump realm
@Mister B.S. bruh, I learned it from you.
F 4 Gricka, may he crash the markets with no survivors from Heaven
Sacrifice Brother for Immortality
The twins dying a week apart is the final cherry on top of this weird story. Truly a pair for the history books. Not because of their significance, but just for how notably strange they were.
People who are closed for most of their lives tend to die together, it's a whole thing. Most married couples die within the few years of each other no matter the age.
@@orangejello3263my grandma died less tham a week after my grandpa dief
They didn't die; they transcended.
They seem like aliens that were stupid where they came from and decided they'd come here and be hailed as geniuses when in a twist turned out to be equally dumb here too...
@@orangejello3263 My great grandpa has somehow managed to live 11 years without my great grandma. He's 88.
The problem is that being granted a PhD or being published in a journal doesn't mean anyone "agrees" with what you wrote or thinks it is correct, just that it meets basic standards for publication. If reviewers had to judge if a theory was actually "right" it would be impossible to have any debate in science.
@Matt Crosby as someone said in the video, the real peer review begins once it's published.
Same with "peer review". It means sweet fuck all but a confirmation bias, and most peer reviewed things that are taken as fact cannot be replicated so are untrue.
Yeah, it comes up in Broc's videos on Jan Schön, I think - a PhD is supposed to be indicative of an understanding of the scientific process, with the implication that you can be trusted when talking about those subjects. It doesn't mean that you'll be right - it just means that you won't be wrong through incompetence alone.
tbh the big fuck-up here was the university delegating responsibility for whether someone got a PhD to any random unaccountable publishers they could win over, rather than just making the call themselves. As Broc said, if they'd just passed him with the shittiest possible grade, nothing would likely have come of it.
The amount of times my teachers have had articles rejected because the reviewers thought the physics were wrong or some mistake had been made in the math is infuriating, and says otherwise.
No, James. that's not correct.
Plausibility is one of the "basic standards for publication" that you correctly refer to.
Incorrectness necessarily makes a paper unpublishable.
i absolutely love the way you handled the topic of their plastic surgeries. Simultaneously treating someone's decisions about their body with the seriousness and respect expected of a biopic like this, and dismissing the issue of their bodies and choices about it as irrelevant to the story.
I dont think it could have conceivably be handled any better, seriously respect that.
i scrolled down immediately after watching that part to leave a comment like this. my kudos as well
Bruh looks like he got swarmed by wasps
yeah that was a chad move
definitely a W and chad move. was seriously really surprised and pleased with the way it was handled
It’s really refreshing to see because even actual plastic surgeons on YouTube and TikTok handle these things horribly, guessing if celebrities had plastic surgery, recommending plastic surgery, other horrible things
The Sokal paper is used in my university intro to writing papers as a demonstration of how an article can meet all the formatting and structural requirements for a publication- and mean nothing at all. It’s used as a bit of a warning to not be too wordy and have a real argument.
Lol. Talk to me about words failing to address what they say screams from the top of a mountain "yo, im tone argument projecting I agree with this person but had to nuke something instead of restraint", k. Thx btw. while I can harness word strength, you show your hand a bluff and now folding in a spectacular bounce mate 🫶
@@thej3799 hey there! I don’t quite catch your drift here.
@@thej3799I can't believe you actually got someone
@@krodmandoon3479 In their defense, this is a YouTube comment section, not an academic paper.
Hey, I know this is such a minor correction and doesn't affect the story at all, but I have to correct, Roland Hayes was a classical singer, not a jazz musician. It explains why Bertha would've been more drawn to him as he often sang songs in French, German, and Italian, and would go on tours in Germany and Austria. Jazz wasn't very popular among white audiences at the time and definitely hadn't made it's way over to Europe at the time so she probably wouldn't have been attracted to a jazz musician. Again, small correction in an otherwise well researched video!
"Well ackshwalley" 🤓
This isn't a physics failure, it is a publication failure. It only becomes a physics failure if people start citing them as credit for some of their new physics discoveries.
Just like the Soakal hoax.
I disagree, because it shows that no one even knows what other people in their field are talking about. Modern day academia is so fragmented and scattered that it is a bunch of smart people working in parallel with no overlap, towards a non-existent goal. 99% of this research is completely useless and only understood by, at most, a dozen other people globally. A quick look on arxiv at most of these dissertations and papers shows that most of them are just grasping at some niche that no one has yet explored, but can fill an entire paper's worth of gibberish.
Shortly put, it is a huge circlejerk.
@eat fucking shit google Well, real research is done in secret by very rich companies. Very little of what gets published is out in the open for us to read, most of it goes into some wealthy corporation's safe and saved for later use by just their own engineers to try to squeeze a few more bucks out of their product. I hate to admit it, but all new science is now a rich man's game.
It certainly isn't a failure, it's another ignored alarm on the sinking ship of peer review. It's been a joke for decades and hardly anyone seems to care.
It's not a failure, as the poor quality/fraud was eventually discovered. If they had chosen earth sciences or biological sciences, their fraud would never have been discovered due to data rights.
Alan Sokal was a TA for one of my computer science courses in UCL in 2010 (don't quite remember which course it was, it was either Hardware II or Theory II). We didn't really knew he was at first, just that he was an excellent teacher, much better than our original course lecturer. He always explained concepts with alot of humour and boiled things down enough that undergrads could understand. I was so impressed by his teaching that I looked him up and discovered that he had a wiki article; after that, we asked him to tell us about the Sokal Affair in one class and he gladly sat us down and talked about academic honesty.
In the end, we as a class literally begged him to teach the course instead of our original lecturer but alas, he said it's not something he can do. A huge shame.
BTW, anyone who is thinking of studying at UCL: this is a common story in the entire university. Great connections to great professors, but absolutely terrible teaching faculty.
Ahhh...That's why we need more of these people to conduct online recorded courses. But, I understand that's no substitute for being in the classroom and asking questions.
@drmodestoesq Nobody asks questions and when they do they are snickered at. It quickly becomes embraced as laziness because admitting to being terrified of showing one's ignorance is far more difficult. The cowardice is suffocating.
know*
Same at most research universities in the US, e.g. UC Berkeley for sure.
Did he have the over-the-top facial surgery yet when he was your TA?
Funnily enough, "Богданов" means "Given by a God" in Russian, where "Бог" = "God". They have a Russian roots after all. So I find it quite funny that title means literally "God.txt"
Just like the best French standup comedian Mbala Mbala Dieudonné
I'm sorry but I cannot get over the fact that the Russian word for God is the British word for toilets while the English word for God sounds exactly like the French word for dildo (which is gode). That's both accidentally disrespectful and frankly hilarious to me. Anyway, thank you for the info, I'm starting to learn Russian and that's a word I'll remember!
@Cla Ida, this can vary with dialect, but, uninflected, the Russian word sounds like [bo:x] (or "boh" if you can't read phonetic notation), so it doesn't sound the same as "bog".
P.S. But yeah, in "Bogdanov" it comes before a voiced consonant, so there it does sound like "bog".
@Victor Pechorin Ok, thanks a lot for this info! The book and audio app I have said that the little angle letter is pronounced "g" but I didn't know about this subtlety. I does make sense though. That was nice of you to take the time to explain it :)
@Cla Ida and the English "God" is Russian "year", "год"
Man the drama in the physics community sounds much more interesting than the TV ones.
Drama is boring. It's too common and mundane, like most humans.
Oh you have no idea. You should check out the drama in the "body language" area. Oh thats fun
@Drew Feld and yet. Here you are
i love watching videos about drama in niche communities im not apart of. Ive been watching videos about knitting community dramas lately 😆 im so interested to know the physics and body language community dramas
@em84c same, I watched a long doc about yarn drama from the 2000s.
The funny yet sad thing is that in the same 10 years, they could have gained their Bachelor's, Master's then PhDs legitimately
That would involve studying, attending classes, assignments, etc. They just wanted to fuck around and get free PhDs
"What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" actually means that everybody gets paid back the same way. Sokal, a physicist, had made sociology look silly by publishing a bad sociology paper, and now physics looked silly because the Bogdanoffs had published a bad physics paper. It's like saying, "What goes around comes around."
“He bought???, dump it!”
LOL, I was wondering what they have to do with currency trading. :D
Not zis time, Bog!
@Middle-Aged Climber dümp üt XD
Rhee pänýck sohld? PÔMP EÏT AGHÉN!
))
"but considering his existing fame and music career, the question remained; why bother now" asked nobody of Brian May when he went back to finish his PhD at Imperial College 33 years after he abandoned his studies to concentrate on a little band now know as Queen (by coincidence when I was in my first year studying physics at the place). He got his PhD in 2007, aged 60...
Asking him "why bother now" was YOUR job, we all agreed!
Him, Milo Ackerman and a bunch of other musicians
There's something almost beautiful about them being handed an out, saying damn you guys got us really good solid prank and them just doubling down on it being real
Amazing video, subscribed !
On a les mêmes suggestions à ce que je vois :')
Go away advertisement
@Silvio Pley Madham i don't care. It's a vapid copy paste spam comment. All he is trying to do is siphon viewers over to his channel. Doubt he even watched the video
I don't know if it was unusual back then, but nowadays it's pretty standard to obain a PhD by publishing papers in journals. It's called "cumulative dissertation" and a lot of PhDs are obtained that way. You publish ~three papers as first author, write a few pages connecting those papers, defend it, and you may be awarded your PhD.
phd speedrun when
yeah, pretty much exactly how PhDs in physics and astronomy are done in the US, as far as I'm aware. Staple together 3 first author papers as your thesis and graduate with your PhD. I was surprised by how much he emphasized in the video that that's not standard.
Phd By publication is not common in the field of physics in the modern day for the most part. Other fields its much more common.
Einstein wrote a cummulative dissertation.
As a PhD candidate in chemistry, even the ones that don't want to graduate through cumulative dissertation but instead though a monography have to have a few published/accepted papers as first author
That ending always gives me shivers. I speak French and I hadn't realized at first that the point is people have to translate the ominous calls using the closed captions to get the info that there's a part 2 coming. It's so good <3
7:07 - "They exist as a pair, a unit that does not make sense unless treated as a whole." - And they died from COVID 19, Grichka first and 6 days later his brother Igor. R.I.P... 😣 😖 😫 😩 🥺 😢 😭
@couchcamper I mean... It says so on their Wikipedia page so...
Good riddance
They didn't actually die. This is fake news
@what Yes I know. Theyr conscience was uploaded and they will live forever in the BLOCKCHAIN.
they died because they didn’t vaccinate against covid
"Sauce" normally means source in meme parlance. However, a common phrase is also 'do you have the goods?', which also can be transitioned to the concept of the 'goods' being the 'source of delight' or subsequently 'the sauce'.
Sokal was a 4chan shitposter when m00t was still posting shit in his diapers
Yeah the more I find out about Sokal the more I see how he was 20 years ahead of his time. And a BotW avatar at 70? How cool is this man
The goods are the beans
Pass me da saucy for ze m3m3z.
The beat drop right at the end when revealing this was a 2-parter is CHOICE.
Also, god do I love these documentaries. They're such interesting looks into aspects of academia and the scientific field at certain points of history. I've rewatched this and the Jan Hendrik series a few times.
Thanks haha, I do love the music choice. Although what I've learned is that if you convince people it isn't a 2 parter, and act like credits are rolling, they leave and then never go watch part 2. Tried to make it clear in the future that there were future parts left.
@@BobbyBroccoli oh noo that's unfortunate, but I gotta say, for the people who stayed, it really enhanced the experience. Such a twist! I kinda wish more people would pull a surpise second parter, because it's really a way of saying "oh, you thought we were done? Buddy, we're just getting started!"
so at the very least i think you win some yoiu lose some :))
not partaking in making the mental struggles of someone who is, in the end, one of our peers a punchline is a genuinely kind move. Yet, this honestly just feels like a side not to what is one of the best videos I’ve watched on YouTube. Good job!
Holy shit, I just came across your channel from the Schön scandal and this is absolutely hilarious as an electrical engineer attempting to go into research. I am currently focusing on photonics and metamaterials (mainly trying to go into research, and I'm finishing my B.S. this year and should be able to finish my M.S. next year), and it seems we might have similar interests. Keep up the amazing content! <3
not only is this really well researched, i feel like you also figured out how to communicate message board drama visually in a way that i’ve never seen before that’s really effective. amazing stuff
You are really inspiring me to write a hoax paper.
Dump it
Make writing hoax papers become a meme and a pastime 😎
Just look up any paper on covid without peer reviews.
most physics after 1900 is a hoax.
Like those dudes that changed Mein Kapf to feminist jargon and got it published?😆
The internet was not sci-fi in the 1980's -- in fact, in France it was the era of Minitel, which was an Internet service available in France, and operated by the French government's PTT. It predated the World Wide Web by about a decade -- founded as it was in 1982.
Minitel blows my mind. Apparently folks were still using it when it was decommissioned in 2009 🤔
@David Curry Films I know, right? I was shocked when I found that out, too -- something like 10 million log ins per month still!
@David Curry Films 2012 ! It was decommissioned on June, 30th, 2012!
@David Curry Films (and I still miss it)
3615 was cool
It seems to me that for the faculty it was a problem along the lines of "how to get rid of PhD students who thanks to having money and free time won't quit even though their research isn't going anywhere".
So if I understood well they granted one the minimum distinction at some drastic conditions (changing field) an the other they condition his right to reattempt the thesis to (supposedly) even more drastic conditions ; getting several publications.
People managing to obtain undeserved degrees or undue praise has and always will be a thing and I can't imagine a perfect system that could completely prevent that from happening.
On the other hand it think there is much to say about the publication world. When I was doing research it was my personal opinion that the academic publication system was in many ways defective by design and that it should completely be rethought. But I have left the academic fiel for a while so I don't know what's the situation about this issue at the present.
Damn, feels bad bro
Yeah, it's the centuries-old problem of having money as a main driver in a fundamentally creative medium. People with money can pressure their way into PhDs, journals are pressured into accepting some kinds of publications (with results and "high impact") and there's always some bottom-feeder journal willing to publish anything for money.
Exactly 😊
4:50 "here's a quick rundown" Damn you I got the reference! You sly bastard!
just wanted to say i really love your editing style. it's stylish but at the same time visually coherent, which i find a lot of channels i watch can't strike a balance between the two. your storytelling is also very well done, and i can tell you put a lot of research into this. best of luck with your channel, and great job on this video!
You're probably aware of this by now, but check out the 'Pretty Good' series by Jon Bois here on YouTube. The editing style of those videos inspired these ones, and they're also about interesting historical events and trivia surrounding semi-obscure fields. If you liked this, you'll love those.
as a french citizen, it's always so weird to see them being talked about outside of french circles! your videos are delightful :)
I live in Germany and a lot of people recognize them for their faces, still.
@Bup it's REALLY HARD to confuse them for somebody else thats for sure
@fullcapsETHAN I couldn't agree with you more.
@@fullcapsethan 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🦛🦛🦛🦛🦛
Surgeons who are willing to do what was done to them should be subject to legal sanctions.
It's all natural. They're are the next step in human evolution.
I think they were suffering from saturnism because at some point they injected lead into their bloodstream to become immortal. Which, spoilers, didn't work.
@Chunk_of_Coal a shame they're now extinct.
@NVW SSV What?
Why would you want that? That only protects insecure morons from making dumb choices that only effect themselves. What you are suggesting goes against the foundation of freedom. If some idiot wants to do something idiotic to THEMSELVES then they should have that freedom.
Amazing work. I had no idea the details behind this meme of a human duo were this interesting. Great choice with the subject you talked about in the first 3 minutes, it got me hooked on the rest of the video which I may have otherwise skipped considering the length. You gained my sub, keep up the good work.
Love that ending, love that atmosphere, what a great channel.
Sincerely,
Charlie Cauliflower
Man, you can tell the animation has improved since this was released, and the overall quality has probably gone up, but the content itself is just as good. Can't believe how underappreciated you've been until the Ninovium video!
this is such an insanely well-produced video, i was curious about this whole event and you covered it excellently. RIP igor and grichka bogdanoff
God damn it dude how do you not have 6 billion subs? Your work is incredible. Please keep up the good work sir!
I enjoyed this video! I had seen other videos on the Bogdanoff twins but didn’t know that they were the grandsons of Roland Hayes. Mr Hayes was not a jazz musician; rather, he was one of the first African-American vocalists to tour Europe. He had a rich tenor voice and sang German lieder, other classical forms, and also Negro Spirituals. My grandfather was a good friend of his and his first accompanist.
Thank you
That's incredibly cool, it must've been wild to realize you had a connection to the matter
Loved the animated transitions. Had a kind of early 2000s feel
The production, editing, writing, everything that goes into these videos, is some of the best on this platform. Seriously impressed with every single one of your videos, please keep it up.
@10:26
Thank you. Just thank you for that alone.
You might have no idea how that broader sentiment helps so much.
bro, you are smashing these videos out of the park. Absolutely stunning presentation!
On the topic of "fast" PhDs I've seen a topic on a forum where a guy said that he finished his in 2,5 years. But his conditions were ideal - preparation, organisation, daily routines, reports to whoever was overseeing him... if the aim is to finish a good thesis using very efficient work (but not to the point of overwork) then speed may come as a consequence, but it shouldn't be pursued as a goal.
When I was 15 I went to Paris with some friends. We spent a night walking down the seine to meet people. We ending up hanging out with Igor and his friends. He was a super nice guy. RIP to both of them 🙏
More stories more stories
Moarrrr
@Joshua Lioi he sukkd him up
You have selfie with them?
@Brian Alanis LMAO
Can't believe I just found your channel my guy. Criminally underrated content.
@LynxSolstice - 2022-01-16
They asked me if I had a degree in theoretical physics, I said I had a theoretical degree in physics, they said welcome aboard.
@sultanofswingdrift3021 - 2022-01-16
LOL good one
@Superplushbros3000 - 2022-01-18
haha i get that reference!
@toadinthehole8085 - 2022-01-19
Great stuff.
@stan8577 - 2022-01-19
@Master of the Universe shut up you CCP bot, trying to destabilise Western societies through creating chain reaction arguments, and then leaving people with a sense of lingering stupidity and worry
@Divinemakyr - 2022-01-20
@Stan Edwards You seem to be one of the fear-ridden conspiracy theorist guys.