Mentour Pilot - 2024-12-14
Are you truly fully informed? Go to https://ground.news/mentourpilot to compare news from around the world and gain a deeper understanding of every story on Aviation and more. Subscribe for 50% off unlimited access for a limited time. ----------------------------------------------------- The 737 MAX, the most recent and advanced version of Boeing’s trusted airliner, rendered almost uncontrollable just minutes after takeoff. You might think you know the story of Lion Air flight 610… but there’s something you HAVEN’T been told! In today’s video, I will take you through a FULL breakdown of what actually went wrong on this infamous flight. There are some complex explanations in here but stay with me, it will be worth it. ----------------------------------------------------- If you want to support the work I do on the channel, join my Patreon crew and get awesome perks and help me move the channel forward! 👉🏻 https://www.patreon.com/mentourpilot 737 Course: 👉🏻 Visit https://www.virtual737course.com to learn how to fly a 737 like Petter in our virtual 737 SIM course Make sure to use code "mentournow" for 20% off! ✈️ Our Connections: 👉🏻 Exclusive Mentour Merch: https://mentour-crew.creator-spring.com 👉🏻 Premium Mentour Artwork: https://electrify.art/mentour-pilot 👉🏻 Our other channel: youtube.com/mentournow 👉🏻 Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/mentourpilot 👉🏻 BOSE Aviation: https://boseaviation-emea.aero/headsets Social: 👉🏻 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot 👉🏻 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mentour_pilot 👉🏻 Twitter: https://twitter.com/MenTourPilot 👉🏻 Discord server: https://discord.gg/JntGWdn Download the FREE Mentour Aviation app for all the latest aviation content 👉🏻 https://www.mentourpilot.com/apps/ Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. SOURCES ----------------------------------------------------- All sources are listed at https://mentourpilot.com/sources-for-lionair-flight-610-video
These deserve to be aired on primetime TV, production is far far better than anything I've seen on. It's factually correct too! Great job Petter!
Thank you Samuel! Let me know what you think when you have finished watching it as well.
@MentourPilot for sure!! Will be watching it this evening 😁
I think maybe it’s abit too technical for general tv but it’s definitely higher in quality than a lot of tv shows :)
@@Moon_x_sun it depends on which channel it's televised I guess, you see these aircraft investigations or 3 part specials that are just as long. Either way, we love to see the content 😁!
@@samueldennis8343 that’s probably true I just feel like in general tv they usually explain things in even simpler terms than Petter (he is still good at explaining tho just doesn’t “over” explain as much) :) I agree tho it’s great content he makes and I love watching it
My lyft driver yesterday told me he’s beginning his training as a commercial pilot soon. I got to geek out about this channel to him and about how helpful it’s been to me from the passenger/general educational side. I hope he checks it out.
That mustve been a fun ride!
He’s going to have to learn that you can’t completely disregard the rules in order to make up time.
He’s going from Lyft to lift
I hope you felt safe in the car :)
I hope you weren’t riding during his period of circadian low
I found these during COVID and told everyone I could. Petter had his dogs on the couch and he did these to supplement his income when no planes were flying. He was alone until more people watched and now he has a whole team. Kudos.
OMG i remember that time too i think i was around 9 at the time also curious on how his dogs are doing
This reminds me of an old programming joke.
A programmer, a systems analyst, and an hardware engineer are car-sharing to get to work. During the commute the brakes on the car fail. The driver manages to stop the car before it crashes and the three colleagues get out to discuss what to do next. The hardware engineer says "We should tear down the braking system, find the fault, and fix it." The systems analyst disagrees and says "No, we should diagnose the issue using the maintenance manual. Once we know what could be causing the failure, we can go right to the correct system and fix it!" The programmer listens in horror and says "Look the car is clearly not showing any problems right now. Let's just get back in and drive to see if the problem reoccurs."
LOL
The interesting thing about that is how often faults do occur on a hardware level, but are assumed to be occurring on a software level. And since we have less and less people these days that are capable of understanding hardware and have not been trained on it, often the default approach is to fix the software. And once no faults are found, they proceed. Very scary stuff.
@@mediocreman2IMO a contributing factor to less and less people understanding hardwares is the hardwares we use today get more and more complex especially with a complex machine like airplane.
Honestly this and similar stories are baffling to me; they are struggling to maintain pitch, the main/strongest determinant of pitch is the trim, yet they don't actually discuss (captain) or realize (FO) the trim abnormalities while pulling at crazy high pounds of pressure. Bizarre. And happened many times with different variations.
@@SR-xv8de I think the main reason is that they couldn't see the exact value of trim position on the screen. And they had no time to look at it in hardware. So if you're not aware it could get worse by itself, you won't do any large corrections to the value. It looked more like the vertical stabilizer was going to break soon because of their 'trim up' corrections.
I've never seen any science or documentary videos like these. You've set a bar so high I find it hard to put into words. The level of respect and sensitivity to the people involved, the lack of exploitation of tragedy, the skill of making science understandable yet fully accurate, and the engagement with the audience. I hope others will learn from you. I'm able to let my kids watch these and know they are going to learn science, respect, and not develop fears.
Thank you.
You summarized it better than I ever could.
Agreed. This one is a stunner.
@@knightmarecityk What you said. 100%
U can check also mayday: air crash investigation or disaster
@@gabipascu5388we're all here because we can't deal with the dramatization and nonsense from those exact shows
I am so glad you made this video. Very few people would know the extent of this story among the general public and I enjoyed watched all of this in such great and easy to understand detail! Keep making this content, it is amazing❤
♥
I have a short attention span and typically struggle to watch videos over 10 minutes or so, but when I see a Mentour video that's over an hour long, I know I can eagerly and attentively watch the whole thing in one sitting.
That’s great to hear!
Same here!!!
Mentour's diction is so good, that listening at 1.25x speed s never a problem, even when multitasking.
you need a 2nd screen and a gaming addiction.. you think I sit here for an hour paying attention lel.. background noise
Ditto
As a software engineer, it never ceases to amaze me how, albeit in a much lower severity level, of course, a lot of the factors that contribute to these accidents can be correlated with incidents in my field of work: design flaws, environmental factors, under-training, poor communication, deviation normalization, confirmation bias, subtle incapacitation, the Swiss cheese model, you name it. I can say your videos really help me to be better at my job by knowing these factors and trying my best to overcome them as they arise. Thanks a lot!
Ahhh…Swiss Cheese!
Another fan of Hoover!
This is because most management see information technology in general and software development in particular as a cost, not a benefit. Therefore the work is given to the lowest bidder. The fact their entire business and their reputation is in the hands of said low-bidders never enters their tiny minds.
@@Ira88881That’s not a Hoover thing, dude.
@@pisymbol Yeah, to be honest I didn't know about the existence of this dude until Ira88881's comment.
Same! (Software engineer here as well)
I lost my dad earlier this year and he loved flying. I don't know about his military career, but he flew small airplanes. He also enjoyed skydiving. Listening to this channel somehow feels like he's still here and I wish I had a bigger excitement towards airplanes.
sorry for your loss :(
During lectures when my professor shares his screen I can see his YouTube and it’s often paused on a mentour pilot video
Awesomeness
Thankfully not PornHub!
that's funny. What subject is your professor teaching?
@@pimacanyon6208 human factors in aviation
@@pimacanyon6208 Humans and Aviation. Mostly about the pilot error and accident model aspect of commercial aviation
I was a production assistant intern in one of the national news channel there. I was called to assist reporting team to Tanjung Priok where the aircraft wreckage and passenger remains were collected. There were families of the victims, NTSB agents working with KNKT, all national and some international press come to cover the news, Indonesian Navy with BASARNAS sailing back and forth to the port. I can smell the deceased's belongings combined with the saltwater and hydraulic oil. Clothes, bags, torn shoes and stuffed animals. Some people from my studio even showed me a picture of a foot still intact in a shoe, the skin color is pale white. It was the most memorable and humbling day for me. I couldn't imagine what the families of the victims felt/feel and I will never understand it. I hope this video gave them peace, to understand in memory of their loved ones.
I can feel how traumatic this experience must have been.🙏
I am a family member of one of the JT610 cabin crew. My sister and her best friend were victims on that flight🥲. Actually, there was 1 engineer, 2 pilot and 9 cabin crew members on board, 3 of whom were still in training when that incident happened.
I hope the B737 Max court case that occurred on JT610 and ET302 can be fully resolved next year, as this tragedy occurred several years ago and Boeing can cooperate to resolve it. Lastly, I hope that similar incidents will not happen in the future☺️
Rest in peace ❤
Amiin. Turut bertakziah mas, semoga keluarga diberikan ketabahan dan kekuatan. Semoga kejadian semacam ini tidak terulang pada siapapun dan di manapun. 🙏
This is so terrible to hear—may she rest in peace 😢.
Turut berdukacita 🙏
As an Indonesian I'm very happy that you do some due diligence on pronouncing the city name. Also love the details about the miscalibration of AoA sensor mentioned because I never really heard this pointed out quite clearly in mainstream media
Same. From the way you hear MCAS hyped up, you’d think it was this killer software that randomly activated and forced the nose down for no reason.
@@princessroyal80it was designed to cut costs and lower engine power making it cheaper
Norak lo blog
FYI, mainstream media all over the world never quite clearly pointing facts.
Why your name Timothy?
As an Indonesian, this accident was very close to my heart. My grandpa was flying to the same destination, on the same day, with the same airline, albeit the very next flight. It is not a good feeling when you think your significant loved ones suddenly perished in the sea, let alone living in one. To all of the passengers and crew who lost their lives in the flight, may they rest in peace. To their families, I hope this video essay brings you peace. Not only to the families, but to the whole aviation community both flight crew and aviation enthusiast. Let this accident and Ethiopia flight 302 into a strong reminder in the aviation community.
My dad was in Sam Ratulangi airport waiting for the Adam Air flight that never came. It does scary to think about it.
@@MultiDivebomberwhen was it? i was recently at sam ratulangi airport (almost 2 days ago actually) because i live near there. got kinda hyped for some reason knowing your dad was at sam ratulangi
@@justyourlocalpotato when Adam Air crashed in 2007
So glad your grandpa wasn’t on that plane.
@@MultiDivebomber i see, thank you still
Fun fact. The P8 utilizes MCAS as well and when the US Navy reviewed the specifics of the the P8 design, including the avionics systems, they identified MCAS as a single point of failure and demanded Boeing reprogram MCAS to utilize both AOA sensors. This was before the MAX entered service.
Thats just common sense. My eyes widened when I heard that.
Who is so stupid to just reference one source of Information when the safety of ppl depends on it?
@@ra1d3r34 Boeing apparently.
why didn't this make it to the FAA or into Boeing's own records? This video is amazing but I am also finding myself wanting way more detail and answers on the "why's" and "how's" but am just a lay person and doubt reading any reports would be helpful for me.
Fun fact. The P-8 Poseidon is based on the 737NG, NOT the Max. It does NOT have MCAS, you are thinking of the KC-46 Pegasus which is based on the 767, also the KC-46 is operated by the AIR FORCE, not the Navy.
As a former stewardess for Icelandair for many years without any serious incidents I find your videos terrifying and exhilarating at the same time. It is like looking at horror movie and not being able to stop looking. I love your calm voice and Norwegian accent. Thank your for all your hard work on this.
Thank you for watching!! (And the accent is Swedish 😉)
With a Spanish twang!!😅
I flew a lot shorter than you and still I agree.
CRM can safe so much but knowledge is required for it.
@@MentourPilot oh ok sorry for the confusion. I lived in Sweden (Kalmar) for few years in the ´70 - Love Beautiful Sweden.
@@iceprincessone7168 Kalmar isn't what it used to be!
This whole sequence of events was more complex than I realized. I didn't know how big a role the maintenance played, or that the earlier flight had the same issue but was able to correct it... and then didn't tell the next crew how. I've always thought that the best kind of rules are the ones you're given a good explanation for, and the more I watch this channel, the more right I think I am about that. Excellent stuff, truly. Top-tier, not just for the YouTubes, but for media in general. Incredible work.
Indeed. The Mayday episode covered the previous MCAS issue, but Petter did a great job of expanding on it.
Don't forget the staggering level of incompetence all around 🤦♂️
no one know about mcas except boeing. Mcas knowing kick in in high altitude not in low altituted(FAA certification)
This is one of the best descriptions I have seen of both accidents involving the Max. Thank you. I flew abroad on a Max in March 2019. The Ethiopian accident happened just after. For my return trip I didn't want to fly on a Max and luckily the FAA stopped Max flights. So this story is one I tried to understand from many sources, but nothing as good as this. Very clear. Feel so sorry for the pilots and passengers.
Airline Pilot and former mechanic at a major airline here. Mentour my deepest respect to you and your team for such a well documented and narrated story from both the technical and professional side. I learned a lot from watching this one!! Thanks
I wonder how often a brand new part and one of the major sensors at that, can be faulty.
@@so_zemlji The real problem was the replacement part was not properly calibrated. I mean 27 degrees wrong???? On a jet airliner that is crazy. Even 2 degrees would make a ridiculous descent rate, but 27 degrees is the kind of movement a fighter jet in combat would make.
@@so_zemljii wonder the one on Amazon is really new or refurbished?
@ That was the problem also. But to have brand new part fail on multiple air crafts is just unacceptable.
I remember when this and the Ethiopian crashes first happened, one of my first questions was "has an erroneous MCAS activation ever been dealt with successfully?" And the answer here is quite shocking, that it was done on the accident aircraft literally the flight before the accident flight. Awesome job as usual
yes. it's too bad though that Boeing had completely hidden MCAS from pilots because even though the crew successfully dealt with the MCAS problem on the flight before this one, they didn't know the real cause, didn't know about MCAS and the fact that it was a faulty AOA sensor (and a horrifically poor and dangerous design of MCAS) that caused the problem.
@@pimacanyon6208 Indeed. It seems as if even the Captain of the previous flight thought therefore that something with the airspeed indicator would cause the problem, resulting in not notifying the trim issues he had faced, what caused then the accident crew to be totally startled when the problems reoccured.
You simply can´t fix a problem when you don´t know what is causing it.
@@pimacanyon6208 Guess what is hidden on page 748 of the System Differences Manual. You should think about checking before taking your guess.
@@NicolaW72 exactly
@@pimacanyon6208 but do you really think the crew would have dealt with it even if they knew? They failed basic memory actions
When safety is a "pay extra option" for a company and not standard package. Run.
A nice touch, noticeable but very small, is your opening credits. For those viewers who don't fully realize the extent and makeup of your team, this really shows that it's not just you that handles these videos. It allows us to appreciate everybody who's been involved, and I think that is an excellent thing. Kudos to the entire team, for every video.
Thanks for noticing!
Could u point time for me? I cant find
I didn't know anything about this accident and had assumed the first flight where MCAS activated was the accident flight. I was utterly flabbergasted to learn that the aircraft wasn't immediately grounded for a thorough technical investigation, but instead flew (and crashed) the next day.
Yep, there is a lot of things people didn’t know about this flight
yeah, this pretty much proves that while MCAS was a contributing factor, pilot error and failure to follow trim runaway memory items, Which is only 4 or 6 items depending on the result of item 4, was the primary cause. There is even a small fold out handle built into the trim wheel to get better leverage when trimming it manually. In both MAX crashes the pilots both turned back on the electric stab trim which is expressly prohibited after a trim runaway. Memory Item 6: STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches (both)................................................CUTOUT
Same here, I didn't know about the first successfully mitigated issue
@@dalgrim but MCAS is not the same as “trim run-away”
A trim-runaway is when the trim wheel is spinning continuously without pilot’s input.
MCAS activation will only move the trim wheel intermittently and NOT continuously like in the case of a trim runaway.
MCAS activation will initially mimic the normal trim operation from the autopilot. There is NO possible cue to the pilot that MCAS was activating at all.
The only sign of MCAS activation to the pilot is literally when they start seeing the ground more than he see the sky.
It is absolutely unrealistic to expect pilots to immediately recognised MCAS activation as a “trim-run away”
Note that MCAS activation is usually a result of another failure on a crucial flight data system such as pitot tube failure or AOA sensor failure, for example.
The pilots are already under tremendous workload even without MCAS activation…
Imagine flying while trying to figure out which airspeed readings are reliable in the cockpit after AOA sensor failure and then you start seeing more ground than the sky outside the windshield without touching any controls all the while the plane is yelling all sort of warning sounds at you.
And that they “fixed” the issue with an AoA sensor that was allowed to be off in calibration by 21 degrees. I know Peter said that was allowed, but I have no idea how. Kind of an important sensor. We aren’t talking 1 or 2 degrees off. 21 freaking degrees off.
As a software engineer there's SO many things about this that are terrifying. There's SO many different things that could have been used as inputs to trigger a "disable the system and throw warning alarms" such as not automatically trimming farther down when it gets mismatched values, overspeed, repeated contradictory inputs (the pilot countering it over and over) in short periods of time. And that's without fully understanding all the functions just things that come to mind!
Sadly as a fellow programmer I know that these things are obverses partly because we are in/watching the situation unfold, when you head down in the office it's harder to think about all these little fault possibilities. Not to say it's impossible to predict but the time is often not taken to think things through. (edit clarity)
You dropped this just as I'm about to board a 10 hour flight. I don't care, I downloaded it to watch during the flight!
Have a good trip!
Where to
I did same thing two weeks ago lol, while going to Tenerife, video was about accident on Tenerife too
Reminds me of the in-flight movie from "Airplane".
LOL -- as far as I can tell, this video posted within an hour of me getting a notice that my flight was delayed due to an equipment swap. From an A320...to a 737 MAX 8.
I seriously considered downloading it to watch during the flight, but decided that would be inconsiderate of nervous fliers.
I want you to know I actually use these videos for leadership training at my job at a steel mill. It may not seem related, but I've found major benefits discussing CRM style leadership with my people, and I have seen benefits to it. Thank you from America!
Im so happy to hear that as I’m working on creating just a course like that
@@MentourPilot When I worked in care, I encouraged this kind of thing before I even knew what 'CRM' was, as it seemed like the best thing since sliced bread to do. It absolutely had a positive effect. It is great you are doing a CRM course like that, it is a game changing concept for many areas and walks of life. UA232s example is probably my favourite successful use of CRM to point out.
@@MentourPilotyou've been instrumental in helping me pass my interviews for the nuclear sector. Thank you Petter & team!
@@MentourPilotthat’s super cool. I for one would be very interested in taking this course for me and my team! We work in a creative field without real risks like this but still so useful.
Same here, although my work is way less meaningful. I adopt the leadership and good CRM practices to make a healthier work environment for my team, and Petter has become a landmark of those qualities to me.
This has been my favorite YouTube channel for about four years now, and this video is one of the best. You have changed how I look at Aviation.
That makes me so happy to hear!
@@MentourPilotjust watched Quantas 32 again.
Back then your dogs were always part of the video. Miss seeing them. Are they still alive and well?
As a 737 pilot- this is by far the best and most centric explanation of the Lion Air crash- i would also challenge you to cover the Alaska Air 737M9 door failure as well which also has a similar sequence of events which would have prevented the incident. Great job as always.
Thank you!
He covered it already i think :) wasnt it 1208?
Nevermind it´s 1282 but he did actually cover it 9 months ago
whoever on your team is responsible for putting in the b-roll at 13:03 is a legend; "This should have raised flags for the maintenance engineers" cuts to engineers taking a selfie.
👁️ 👄 👁️
Great production, can't wait for the next episode!
I'd never flown in an aircraft until recently. Im almost 50 years old and had never really been out of Perth Western Australia that was until my partner took me to South Africa to see her family last year. I didn't tell her and probably won't but getting on that plane is was sweating bullets and truly terrified. Before we went though id seen lot's of your content and even before taking off i could hear your calming voice inside my head. This put me at ease and while i was scared the belief in the pilots and plane helped immensely.
My trip to South Africa was out of this world and now i can't wait to go back..
My point is I'm incredibly grateful 🙏 for your channel putting my heart at ease. Thank you..
Considering you got criticism (and to an extent rightly so) every time you had a betterhelp sponsorship, I think more thanks should be given to you now that you no longer take sponsorships from them.
Thank you
Why are you still bringing that up 🙄
He should be thanked for stopping doing harm. Weird take.
What’s betterhelp?
@@pjaypender1009 hes being thanked for listening and doing something about it.
Omg they put some of the vital instruments behind a pay wall 😭
3:32 ‘airbus 737-900 er’ cracked me up. Great content
Yeah😂 probably an error
Video editor will be getting email from Petter
There will be an investigation of this tragedy and Petter will wait on the final report to post a video about this😂
Wait, what am I missing? afaik that’s what they (Lion Air) actually call it.
@@lokifrostpaw2976 Really? They called it an airbus 737?
This guy is an airline captain, but still does this intense research for us. What a pilot!
He is not airlines captain anymore. He resigned from Ryanair
@@DiogoOliveira-u1j Given that he was more than just a captain, I think even with the time since last command, he basically is still at a captain level lmao
He actually was not "just" a captain, he was a type rating instructor for the Boeing 737, so he taught other pilots in his airline about all the different systems a Boeing 737 and did simulator training with them. That's why he can pretty confidently judge when pilots are getting overwhelmed or what pilots might think when they did something unexpected, he observed hundreds, possibly even more than a thousand, pilots behaving in the simulator under stressful conditions.
But he resigned I think last year or earlier this year to fully focus on Mentour Pilot
If you think there isn't a team behind this then you're mistaken
@ThomasIsBored Sure, there must be a team but it's still no easy task doing what he does.
As a 737 pilot I watched this video with regards to the title. Off course I knew what happened here but decided to watch it anyway. There was indeed a fact that I did not know and that was the poor performance of the first officer. ( especially with 4000 hrs plus) Please young boys and girls: you are managing a high performance machine. Do not become a pilot because it looks fancy with your friends and on instagram. KNOW your stuff and keep re-studying it. We can all make mistakes but not knowing the most important items in your books is unforgivable. Thank you Peter for another job well done. I already have a lot of friends that abandoned Nat Geographic and switched to Mentour.
Man, You beat yourself with this video. As an ex cameraman, tv&media bussines man, congrats to how you and team present this. Watch all of yours Pilot stories, and hope so, can not wait for another. Wish you all the best in new year, clear sky and more great videos. All the best from Serbian guy, from Luxembourg.
Thank you so much for that feedback!! It means a lot, coming from a cameraman!
Thank you! As an airspace engineer, pilot and aircraft accident investigator… is great how you have treated this: factual, clear, impartial and precise….Thanks and waiting to the next video. Congrats on this great work
1 hour video feels like 10minutes! Great job! It perfectly explains how systems and teams work and how accidents happen when the whole system fails without anyone raising a red flag. Best explainer video over!
Love that you guys are putting credits in your videos now. So few channels do when such a large effort goes into the production work. Cheers to the entire team for making such a great channel possible.
Damn, one of your best videos so far!
I was quite familiar with the uncommanded MCAS activations on this flight, but I had no idea a crew the day before faced the exact same problems and didn't crash.
It's amazing how 2 different crews can be all that stands between a minor inconvenience and a fatal accident.
Great work by you and your team!
and they dont talk to each other...very FRIGID. ARROGANT.
Imagine also IF MCAS had also been Disclosed Much Earlier
this incident just manifested what wasn't picked up or brushed aside. first officer was not up to standard and that the aircraft was released to the public with shortcomings brushed under a carpet by regulators (and this makes me angry). what is worst is that, the aviation industry is renowned for its safety but yet a manufacturer just crushed that in exchange for money. to this day the executives of boeing I have not heard of any being jailed. i think there should be a mansluaghter case for this but boeing would always argue that if lion air's crew were that good then it would at least mitigate the shortcomings of the plane as in the previous crew who dealt with the problem.
seems worse than that to me. The previous flight resulted in a pan pan so it was considered a serious fault by the pilot. After 'repairs', the plane should have been taken for a test flight before being returned to passenger service. Ground tests just aren't enough for a problem involving flight controls.. As it stands, the test flight is just the next revenue earning flight with passengers aboard. Petter often underlines how we shouldn't be afraid of flying because the industry takes safety seriously, this tells me otherwise.
@@selseyonetwenty4631 STILL no cameras on planes!!!
The combination of the simulated flight footage, professional opinion, and the very comprehensive breakdown makes this the best “Aviation accident” channel. IMO.
Thanks for covering this one
This crash is very personal to me as the aircraft destination is to my hometown(yes, my Howmetown is Pangkalpinang, Bangka Belituung)
And some of the passengers are peoples that my parents personally know
Software developer here. You and other aviation channels have influenced my day-to-day professional understanding quite a bit.
Also as a software dev, I see many of the same mix of human + system failures in my own working world. Though in my business that usually just means someone’s order gets stuffed up, rather than a plane crashing.
As with any computer, "garbage in, garbage out"!
@@Georgiagreen317 I use the acronym SISO.
(not to be confused with sisu, which is a very positive thing, when genuinely suomi that is. And I say that as ruotsalainen.)
@@bodan1196 what is the acronym siso?
@@Tamyrk Same as "garbage in, garbage out", but with a less polite four letter word instead of garbage. Starting with 's', ending with 'it'.
@@bodan1196 LMFAO
Wow, thanks Petter, absolutely fabulous coverage.
As a very highly experienced (and now retired) captain, with nearly 30k hours and well over 12k on the 737, it was so painful to hear how the holes in the Swiss cheese slowly but surely lined up here.
There were numerous chances to avoid the crash- from right at the beginning with engineering and pilot reading the previous tech log entries, and then even virtually right at the end by simply reverting to basics, setting an attitude and thrust level and of course cutting off the stab trim runaway.
So sad. So avoidable.
P.S. We always treated runaway Stab as ANY kind of major electric trim problem. If it’s misbehaving, do the memory checklist ie: you cut it off, period, and revert to purely manual trim- (something I have done many times in the simulator.)
Regarding your P.S. comment about the Runaway Stab Trim - YES YES YES. I DO NOT care what is causing it. You do the MEMORY ITEMS. Amazing to be these flights crashes. Totally avoidable.
In my flight training we didn't fully trust electric trim (like AI today) and were ready to shut it off and leave it off. A friend experienced runaway and stuck trim, which reinforced my awareness. I suppose it is so rare today that some pilots don't react. Sad and avoidable.
Lotta things went wrong, but I can't effing believe the FO on this flight. I guess it's easy to judge, but wow.
ethiopian airline pilot did runaway stab still crashed
@@AsriWardhy Ethiopian turned stab trim back on after shutting it off. That reengaged MCAS which then drove the plane into the ground.
I just was rewatching your video on the "Titanic of the Skies" (Air France Airbus stall) and here it comes a NEW VIDEO! Released 20 minutes ago! About the accident I always wanted to know about. Thank you Mentour Pilot for your hard work! ❤
I work in Cyber Security, and see a lot of similarities between how we are supposed to handle CRM type issues during incidents. I have definitely improved my professional capabilities when it comes to incident response coordination and communication from watching your videos.
One of the major issues we see in my field is people assuming another party knows what they are referencing with unspecific communication, similar to in this incident, although thankfully none have been serious enough to cost people their lives in my career.
Thank you from Denmark for the great content!
Thanks for that. I work in a similar field and I over-communicate now because I see how poor communication is in the cockpit sometimes and I am convinced that my coworkers and the vendors that I work with must think I am thick in the head because I always clarify things that are not clear to all parties. And even though nobody really says it out loud I know things have gone much, much better because of that clarity among all parties.
@@mediocreman2 In this case the difference what Boeing assumed and what actually happened was simply crazy: Boeing (or Boeing´s software experts) assumed that the Pilots would identify the failure within three seconds (!) as a Trim runaway and would then immediately take the correct procedure to solve the problem. In fact the first crew identified the problem after more than two minutes and only caused by the Good Luck that they had a third Pilot on the Jump Seat in the Cockpit, who had experience with this Aircraft model and from his position a better view onto the Trim Wheels than the two Pilots in the front seats. The second crew identified the problem at no point of their 12-minutes-flight.
@@NicolaW72 As a layman it just seems impossible to believe that Boeing were so overconfident in MCAS that they didn't even bother testing it enough to figure these issues out. They've got blood on their hands now (if it bothers them, that is)
@@guestguest9603 It is indeed the question if they at Boeing really believed what they stated: That the Pilots were able to identify the problem within three seconds!
Regarding communication: A now famous quote popped up in the 70s at many places, in my case at a university technical service center...
“I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure that you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
As a young aviation enthusiast and having a dream of becoming a pilot, i have learned A LOT from these kind of videos and i am truly grateful that i have found Peter's Chanel to take me through all the details and complexities that pilots have to deal with!!❤❤
The Ethiopian one crashed about 100 miles off of where I live and the fact that it could've been prevented both times pisses me off
Yeah.. it’s quite frustrating
Muslims talking about accident prevention ☠️☠️☠️
@@rex77xyou aren’t serious
I think this is so often the case when we look back at accidents that should and could have been avoided. It’s highly frustrating that this was known about and not handled properly, angering that those who should have been certifying the aircraft shirked on their own work taking away all the oversight that was meant to be there to keep everyone safe, disgusting that profits came at the expense of safety, and heartbreaking that those who pay for it with their lives simply had nothing more that bad luck on their side.
To make it worse, both accidents occurred after a documentary had been made with undercover investigative journalists having actually filmed Boeing staff saying they would never want to fly on the 787 because they wouldn’t feel safe, knowing the kind of practices that have been ongoing in the company, especially after moving production to Charleston, South Carolina where staff are not unionised and were being compared to cheap hires fresh out of a McDonald’s job. I feel like that level of reporting (done by Al Jazeera and worth a watch to all that haven’t seen it) should have been enough to trigger deeper investigation into Boeing by the FAA, but they remained complicit and, whilst it wasn’t the Dreamliner nor the lithium battery fire risk on that plane that turned out to be the straw that broke the camel’s back, it sadly felt like anything coming out of Boeing thereafter was a ticking time bomb as so much remained ignored.
@@thegreyarea-WPP Indeed, exactly.
@MentourPilot - 2024-12-13
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@LizFarrell-p7b - 2024-12-14
Did Petter just send a heart to his own message? Petter please say hi to my son Jared and make his day. Thanks in advance
@NorwayT - 2024-12-14
24:35 — I had to play the 'Petter Shaker' twice! 😂 Hilarious graphics to illustrate the Stick Shaker! 😂
@Powerranger-le4up - 2024-12-14
Could you also do Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 as well? Ethiopian Airlines had trained their pilots on the emergency procedure for MCAS after Lion Air but the procedure didn’t work.
Edit: Never mind. You said it will be your next video. Hopefully, you can clarify some things on this one since the NTSB and BEA reports seem to think that the pilots are to blame as well even though they followed the correct procedure and Boeing never mentioned the role that speed would play in turning off MCAS.
@Hreimr - 2024-12-14
@31:12 Could that be due to training that every switch you throw while using the plane has to be set back to standard before handing off the plane?
For locomotives that is how we do - and then we report (and thus make it visible to other train drivers) the issues and what might have caused it, this way it can be investigated by the technicians.
@Hreimr - 2024-12-14
Oh wait - he forgot key issues and descriptions - that's why...