Astral Chemistry - 2016-08-17
Watch how nitric acid is prepared in commercial setups! In this video, we are going to oxidise ammonia to nitrogen oxides in order to synthesise nitric acid. This reaction is used in commercial setups for the production of nitric acid, after ammonia became available on a large scale. Visit chemplayers channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiU1dHvZObB2iP6xkJ__Icw
I'm here because of Dr. Stone's last chapter
Me too lel
Do a video on recovering Platinum from Hard Drive Platters....it would be the only one on Utube....From Platter to Platinum......:) Maybe also include the Plating of Quartz Wool....?
Nice vid. Glad to see people starting to do this. You just earned your first sub.
Thank you. Nice to see that someone is actually watching the videos!
So Easy A Cave Man Could Do it.....!!
Please do a video on the preparation of the silica catalyst?
It is on our list. Please refer to our answer to Tom DiPhilippos comment for details, as he had the same question.
I've subscribed! Nice one mate!
Thanks!
Astral Chemistry hold on, is this "chem player" if not, very similar. but bravo if not
No, we took the "OpenChem" project as a kick in the ass to start making videos. We might know a thing or two about chemistry but not about video recording and editing. So that was handy for a start.
keep it up epic one
I would be very Interested to see how you prepared your platinum catylist
We'll make a video about that, as you're not the only one asking. But it might take a while as we have to do some editing now. However, we'll try to get it done till the end of November together with the dehydrogenation catalyst.
Do you want to prepare this type of catalyst yourself?
Astral Chemistry Yeah, I wanted to prepare it because nitric acid from ammonia would be a cool OTC method of preparation for HNO3
is the platinum reacted? how long can you use the same platinum without changing it?
Astral Chemistry where do you get the platinum? i seen some platinum gauze listed for $600+ for 1.7g
Astral Chemistry where do you get your platinum foil and your glass? ive been reading lots of reviews and with atleast some it says the glass is so thin they are afraid they are goin to break it
will any platinum group metal work for this or does it need to be platinum?
The platinum sheet metal was cold rolled from a lump of solid platinum. The glassware is from our glassblower, including the quartz tube.
No, nickel would rather catalyze the decomposition of ammonia into its elements. Palladium should work. Apart from that, iridium and maybe rhodium should also work.
Could I use a different catalyst?
I have heard that red hot Iron can be used? I know nothing about it and I am not sure if it is the same setup or even something that is real. I saw that on ebay there are premade platinum beds used in fireplaces to emulate embers and they were about 20 bucks.
Yes, you can use copper wire, but the reaction is much harder to start. See my answer to "R Johnson" above.
Tolles Video! Hast du den Katalysator selber gebaut?
Gerne. Das sind ganz normale Silikonstopfen. Im Zweifel einfach Teflonband drumwickeln, aber auch Korkstopfen würden halten. Ja ich weiß, das habe ich schon seit einem halben Jahr versprochen. Das Problem ist dass dann vielleicht 5 Leute das Video anschauen würden. Aber ich sehe was wir tun können.
Astral Chemistry this is a good video, but parts were a little difficult to understand due to the computer voice, however PLEASE make the video on the platinum/silica catalyst PLEASE...I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER XXXXXX
Ok, ok. Since multiple people want it its going to be the next video.
Yes, the voice is not the best but its the only usable free software. We don't want to pay 50€ /$ for a TTS software.
Super :D !
Aber bitte probier auch Methanol zu oxidieren :D
Wieso probieren? Funktioniert wunderbar am Platinkontakt bei relativ geringer Temperatur. Die Frage ist ob ich bis zum Aldehyd, zur Carbonsäure oder zum CO2 oxydieren soll XD. Ich vermute mal völlig unvoreingenommen dass du am Formaldehyd interessiert bist.
Your surfice area is comparable to a soccer field, succer!
Just curious how efficient is this process? Also would this be economical for me to do?
In an industrial setup this is highly efficient. Wether it is economical depends on what you want to do. If you want to build a nitric acid plant then probably yes. If you just want to have some nitric acid then it is way cheaper to buy it or to make it yourself, f. ex. from a nitrate salt and sulphuric acid. Just consider the platinum catalyst. If you have to buy everything to make the platinum catalyst then you can probably buy a lot of nitric acid for that money.
Where I live 2 liters of nitric acid costs about $150 which for me is a little bit much. The hardest part I guess is getting hold of the platinum catalyst.
You can easily make the catalyst yourself. Check out my video: https://youtu.be/iaNSH89gpPk
Thank you, will try this soon.
So how do you make the catalyst? You can't really do this experiment without it. Does it have to be platinum? What about copper or something cheaper?
https://depatisnet.dpma.de/DepatisNet/depatisnet?action=pdf&docid=DE000000414141AIve found it. The original Patent of Kaßners Katalyst.
Sorry, but the link does not seem to work. Maybe you forgot something at the end?
I give you the link to the patent amt. https://depatisnet.dpma.de/ipc/ipc.do?s=C01B0021000000&v=20170101&l=DE&dh=dh11&sn=n00&sci=i00#C01B0021000000search here. C01B 21/26 in text contains Chrom there are many patents who works without Platin.
Thanks a lot again! You know some great internet resources! You're really right that the enemy of good is the better.
No Problem. I ve learnd many Things from the patents.First they heat the Gas mix not the catalyst and Platin is the only one who works with 300 C. If you use higher temperaturs for the gas mix it reacts with the pipe material and you have Nitrogen loses exept you use glas. or sealing it with water glas ect.If you dont heat the gas mix you have than an lot of Ammoniumnitrat in your acid.I hope you find some good Experiments for you. :)Oh and there was an good one that uses silver on pumic Stone.I think ill try some day this one. :D
I saw the method you used to prepare the catalyst. Good vid. That much platinum usually costs less than 40c when purchased in gram quantities, so this process relatively cheap compared to buying HNO3 online. You have proven nitric acid production at home is not only convenient, but also economical, given the right apparatus. Just a few questions, though. Is there anything I can use instead of fused silica tubing? The stuff is expensive. How long does it usually take to get azeotropic (~67-68% concentration) nitric acid in the quantities shown in the video? In your other video, you used aqua regia to dissolve platinum, convert it to sodium chloroplatinate, and use ascorbic acid to reduce the platinum(IV) to platinum(0), which slowly deposited on the silica wool. Could I do the same but with 30% hydrochloric acid? Would adding more platinum significantly increase the reaction rate upon the surface of the wool?
for the azeotropic nitric you should be able to do some stoichiometry to find the amount of ammonia that is required. I am not sure how to calculate the time tho without trying it.
As for the silica tubing, you can use a copper or iron pipe, yes you wont be able to see whats happening inside, but it would las for many runs, and tou could tell if the reaction is happening by the color of the fumes.
well...I'm gonna comment in English even if i'm from Germany
where did you buy that special tube for the combustion chamber? would it be possible to attach some NS 29/32 joints on it?
we don't want to try to use our expensive ground glass glassware if it will break...
Thanks.
We bought it from our glassblower. But there are plenty of these quartz tubes around on ebay. Just search for "Quarzrohr".
It would be very expensive because you would need specially made ground glass joints from quartz glass. You cannot fuse different types of glass together (different thermal expansion). It is much cheaper to use stainless steel tubing.
No need for a straight pipe. I did this experiment a few times some time ago, one of the times using a round bottom flask (500ml) with three necks (one unused, was stoppered). The middle one had a rubber stopper with a glass pipe in the middle extending almost to the middle of the flask as inlet for ammonia and also a length of copper wire (instead of platinum) that extended to the middle of the flask and was coiled in a bunch there just at the tip of the inlet, staying a few centimeters from the walls (not touching anything except the stopper a few centimeters behind). The other neck of the flask was used as outlet for the reaction gasses. Using copper in place of platinum worked, but starting the reaction required careful timing as I had to heat the copper wire using a bunsen burner to yellow hot temperatures and then quickly insert it into the flask and open the ammonia gas flow. After started it went by itself, the copper wire glowing, but careful flow control was needed, since if the flow was too fast it would cool down the wire too much, stopping the reaction.
Hi do you think this process is preferable to the birkeland-eyde for producing hno3 at home? birkeland eyde is really limited in production quantity.. ostwald process is the industrial method still used today but how practical it is for a home chemist is another thing.
I meany to add, i looked the old industrial preparation. youre looking at a little under 850c iirc.
You can go by colour chart of the glow of embers. vapour smoke given off also confirms correct temperature is reached
Are you using white Non ich Fiberglass insulation for the Fibers...? Then Soaking it into the Pt from Aqua Regia once it's precipitated and Re dissolved ....And I think HCL And NaCLO work better on Pt to Dissolve for Precipitation ...is this Correct...?
There is no insulation, only the quartz wool catalyst. You first dissolve Pt in Aqua regia, then prepare sodium hexachloroplatinate from the solution. This is dissolved in water and reduced with ascorbic acid while the catalyst is soaked in the solution. And chlorine water is a mixture of HCl and NaOCl as chlorine disproportionates partially into the mentioned species.
Ok Gotcha....Easy Enough....! Kinda Hard to Keep along with the Video Voice....And im sure you are Removing the Nitric Out of the A.R. Before using it.....? Urea.....Thanks Astral Chem......Rich........:)
I have a video of the same process but whilst I was filming there was a large backfire explosion and it destroyed my glass gas jar - I was hit by flying glass - so always put a safety shield up in front of the experiment.
That sounds very bad. Thank you! I made the mistake to first use pure oxygen and ammonia gas. The explosive limits for ammonia are actually very wide. btw: you have a very nice channel with very interesting videos!
Thanks - love also what your doing - Chemistry is the king of Sciences we need to promote it
Came across a source stating that copper or nickel could be used as a catalyst if you don't have platinum.
A few forum posts corroborates copper catalysts for use in the Ostwald process, but I can't find anything on nickel.
TL;DR: Possible, but harder. Full text: I did this experiment a few years ago using simples common electrical copper wire instead of platinum. However, it was MUCH more difficult to start. In my apparatus, the copper wire was attached to a stopper also containing a glass pipe for the inlet. I used a bunser burner to heat the copper wire to "yellow hot", very quicky inserted it into the silica tube and immediately opened the ammonia flow. Had to try two or three times before getting the timing right. After started, the reaction went by itself, and the copper wire continued to glow until the end, but if I let the flow go too fast, sometimes it would cool down too much and the reaction stopped. Likely that yield suffered as well.
@Marcelo Picoli Interesting. I wonder if it would be easier to use an electrical current running through the wire to keep it heated properly?
Say your having problems with Ammonia Gas Straying over into your Collecting Vessel ..it looks to me after the Cat they are using long water cooled Condensing Rods before the HNO3 Vessel. Also introducing Air ...it is a liquid mostly into the last Collecting Vessel...Also did I hear you say you were Boiling down the Ammonia to make it Stronger displacing the water in it. Are you doing it under a Vacuum for low Temp....?...if so boil to what Ph.....? Quartz wool is easy .., make a A.R. add Pt ..Neutrlize with Urea boil down to a Syrup add water place Quartz in it ...Add Ascorbic Acid and stir...Maybe leave for a day or so to plate wool with Pt...
A solution of ammonia can be heated to the point where ammonia gas will start to outgass from the liquid. The setup as shown in the video was arranged in a way that the process is clearly visible in the video. The target was not to archieve the maximum yield of nitric acid, which can be simply ordered from the chemical suppliers.
Your Video here does not have any Heating Element Under your Ammonia Supply Vessel ..You are saying can get a Stronger Ammonia Gas from Heating it...I see the first 2 Reactions Equilibrium goes both ways..Precipitate the Pt to a Mud ...Then add distilled water enough to soak the wool...Are Ya adding the Ascorbic Acid to the water before dumping it into the Pt Precipitant...? Or are you adding the Ascorbic Powder after the wool is placed in the watered down Pt Precipitantant...? Very Nice Chattin With You Astral Chem...PS...Getting HNO3 at a decent price for Ewaste to make a Dollar is impossible....!! And Distilling Drip by drip ...Well....Thank's..:)
I don't like this video. I don't know what is said in this video. The sound isn't clear..
Why use this stupid voice over, a normal voice would be much better. Stupid
ionel anonimul - 2018-05-13
I miss #chemplayer :((
windigo00 - 2019-10-05
i never knew him/her :( heard mentioned a lot. did i missed something?
PeppyFlunky81 cc - 2020-01-14
@windigo00 yeah, he was a huge chemistry Channel, actually you can found him in bitchute ;)