DBX Labs - 2020-08-02
Finally done this project. Yes I am aware that I put NH3NO3 instead of NH4NO3. I am sorry Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/DBX_Labs Thanks to all Patreon supporters! Samonie67 Braveskin Explosions&Fire Erik Weiss Niklas Gref To explain the kilo of Nitrocellulose further, I am well aware of the problems that may arise with the large scale deflagration regarding DDT. For this reason, the lump pile of Nitrocellulose would be heavily compressed, meaning less oxygen present at any given time in the fireball, and a longer, less "explosive" burn. UPDATE: Actually no. That is bad idea. Nitrocellulose will NOT be compressed.
I use a setup similar to yours with success and I want to share what I found to increase the yield. First I use two electronic neon transformer both rated at 10kV 30mA with an Air Pump. Electronic transformer are more efficient than traditional 60-50Hz ones but you need to disable the open circuit protection. I found one on amazon if you are interested. The air pump must be cycled on and off with a duty cycle timer. This allow the NO2 to have a high concentration before being bubbled in the distilled water. If I bubble constantly, almost all the NO2 escape without being absorbed. I also use and air dryer filter, because the humidity in my area cause nitric acid accumulation at the bottom of my 3neck reactor flask. When the air is dried using molecular sieves or Silica Beads, the reactor is filled with NO2 faster. The other last important thing is that if you check carefully, the NO2 is not really absorbed in water. Most of it react with water and create a mist of Nitric Acic and this mist escape in air while the bubble explode at the surface. So it is important to bubble in more than one recipient. I use 4 SO2 scrubbler found on eBay in series with great result. Do not abandon this project. If you solve all your problem you will have good yield and a cheap source of nitric acid. My total power for my setup is about 65W.
@H w Ah, then yes, it's completely dead thanks for sharing. But how do you disable the protection, because I'd buy another one .
@Azer Tyuiop I highly suggest that you don't disable the open circuit protection because it will increase the risk of internal short in the transformer. Use shorter distance at the bottom of your Jacob ladder instead. If you really want to do it cut one of the small red wire that go from the HV side to the low voltage and DO NOTcut any red wire connected to the mosfet. It only work with the amazon model I post above.
@H w Thank you very much !
@H wI haven't tried wet, but would this high voltage module or several of them be suitable?
https://www.ebay.es/itm/184013351423?hash=item2ad80ce9ff:g:bG4AAOSwT-Neln29
Would it be possible using an arc produced by a tesla coil?
@H w how can i contact you ? these days i try to do a similar work what you did
Saturday: NurdRage - How to make nitric acid.
Sunday: DBX - How to make nitric acid... From air.
This guy took it a bit further even.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RRqIv4SoLg
Way further!!!
Waaaaaay further!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay further.
This video is AWESOME!
I have been asking on forums for ≈12 years if this approach would work.
Everyone said no, but could not explain WHY they didn't think it'd work.
Also asked this on a lot of channels here on youtube, asking them to perform this experiment, with no success.
Two ideas that might help increase the captured yeild.
1) DIY nano bubbler: use an Air stone inside a pipe through which water is pumped. Water speeding up as it passes around the air stone quickly rips tiny nano sized bubbles off the air stone, not only will stay in solution longer, but they have much greater surface area helping increase the amount absorbed into the water.
2) periodically adding Ammonia to keep the ph close to 7 might help increase the yeild.
I sympathize with this a lot man. Sorry about the apparatus. I’ve broken a lot of glass in the 3 years I’ve been doing this. It is always frustrating. Great video though!
Great work, the process of making the ammonium nitrate is really interesting.
NurdRage, SyroPyro, Cody and NileRed have some up and coming competition. Well spoken video and excellent demonstration
I am a bit worried about the flask you are doing the reaction in, check 5:05 . The arc kinda licks the top of the flask everytime it goes up. That gives me flashbacks of when Nilered did some plasma experiments with his beakers in a microwave with a similar situation and it introduced stress into his beakers which made them crack randomly. Be extra careful with what you use the flask with next, but your flask broke so owell, its always sad to see someones glassware brake. I accidentally broke a condenser and an additionfunnel once at the same time while taking apart a distillation setup. Also the water you bubbled the NO2 in could be better if you added Hydrogen Peroxide which increases it efficiency. Otherwise, great video
P-α3 Yeah I figured the sporadic heat treatment from the plasma wouldn’t help the situation one bit. At some point I decided the investment was for the reactor, not a future 3-neck so that’s when I got the middle neck epoxied.
@DBX Labs
The bigger the scale of the reactor the more efficient it is.
I recommend using a large steel container, water cooled electrodes and a hefty transformer for higher efficiencies.
DC works better than AC actually, if you can find a high voltage DC power source use that.
Also, amps and surface area are your friend. That’s why they used magnets to spin that plasma around.
very well done video - thanks for producing it!
Cool video! When you calculate the power usage, is that the actual measured usage or the max rating of the transformer? If you were actually able to deposit 225W in your vessel I think it would become VERY hot in operation.
The power was calculated just based on total energy expense. I can't imagine that any more than a couple tens of watts were converted to heat in the reactor itself. The glass only got up to around 100C.
So yeah, just the transformer rating.
I m Also working on this project ☺️
Just wanted to make my own transformer for better arcing and an oxygen generator for better production of nitric acid
Please 🥺 support my channel too 🙏🙏🙏 we all r science lovers
I think your yield is excellent factoring in the set up. I can imagine if somehow you were given a substantial sum of money into equipment and research, you would be able to get a better yield, while doing it from home :D
Wiktor Dudek yeah, I would like to throw some serious electromagnets on to control the plasma’s shape but that would likely cost more than the current project did.
Insane waste of energy, but still alright for an interesting experiment.
Here you have two reasons for the inefficiency: first reason of course, is your arc, that is not optimized to produce a maximum of NO2 - what is hard to manage indeed.
The second inefficieny reason is your method to catch the NO2. You could have done much better by using a long cylinder filled with water and CaCO3 (Chalk or marble) and bubble the gas to the ground of that cylinder.
So the gas can react with the chalk all the way up to form Calcium nitrate. That was also be done in the history for that process.
So I guess you would get a much better yield of HNO3 in the end.
But anyway, it's just an experiment to see what's possible, but as long as someone has access to any nitrate fertilizer, that would be much cheaper. Or as someone may have access to unused solar or windpower, so that you have a way here to convert free energy into some chemical energy, the easy way. But I believe, electrolysis of chloride into ClO3 is still a more efficient way for that, but it needs more maintaining therefore and equipment on the other hand.
Electrolytic hydrogen for fertilizer production has shitty marginal returns on capital.
Probably my favourite video on youtube for science related videos.
Try using a grid electrode. Did you factor in what hydrate the ammonium nitrate is?
You might try dissolving the NO2 directly in ammonia, to prevent loss of the gas to atmosphere
I thought about using ammonia instead of water but I couldn’t think of a way to keep the ammonia from just leaving the solution over time. The ammonium nitrate doesn’t really form hydrates, it more just absorbs water into its crystal structure until it “melts.” Any of this water was not present after the baking in the oven.
@DBX Labs maybe you could also try continuously spraying water inside the reactor. The water mist would dissolve all of the liquid quickly. It would also cool the reactor.
To do this you would just need a small water pump and some sort of nozzle. Maybe from a spray bottle or something.
I have an idea to increase electrical efficiency of this setup ..
NST or Any Transformer or smps is less efficient to generate high voltage Arc because of high current in primary winding that cause heat instead of any High voltage supply i think it's great idea to boost 220 volt Ac using Capacitor voltage dubbler Circuit using few Polly caps and arc with rotating plats as electrodes or arc in side Ring type magnet as Anode ( with cooling ) and cathode shaft in the middle so arc will rotate automatically because of Loranz force on charge just like magnetron or just use corona instead of direct arc if it work may be Heated air make it more efficient not sure .
10:33 Ammonium nitrate in solution is yellow. So that's the correct color you are getting here and it's a good indicator, that it works.
You can build your reactor from an bucket if you isulate it inside with an mix of plaster of paris and sand.
Have you tried Fractional distillation for this product to enhance focus and does it work
bilal ammar I probably could try fractional distillation to get a better idea of the final acid concentration, but it isn’t really necessary in distilling Red Fuming Nitric Acid. Since the Ammonium Nitrate is anhydrous and the sulfuric acid is at 98%, the product distillate is always right around 100% concentration in all fractions.
good luck
My friend. But I would expect that if you had Fractional distillation of your dilute yield, you 💐would have more ammonium nitrate
I'm thinking of attempting this using dc current from what I read that actually can improve efficiency I'll let u know how my zvs setup works
Alek Escalante Cool! From what I’ve read, DC improved yield significantly in combination with plasma manipulation via magnets/electromagnets. You might want to try that out.
@DBX Labs you should read about the Schönherr Stove. Long pipe bottom an electrode top an electrode with an handel. Compressed air inlett on the bottem. The electodes are pulled apart with the compressed air inlett open. The arc looks like an corkscrew. In industrial dimensions they had 5,5% effezienze. Fritz Haber wrote (he done bevor ammonia synthesis some experiments on electrochemistry) if the reaction chamber would be from metal (dont know how he wanted to prefent an short cut for current) The effizenzie would be much highter because better cooling of the NO gas. with his small aperatur he had 7% effizenie.
Best way I found to purify ammonium nitrate was by successive filtrations and recrystalization in the freezer. If you heat it too much you will decompose it into nitrous oxide. Which is fine if you want a laughing gas party.ha
How high was your electricity bill 😂. How much did it cost per gram in your power
Awesome setup and vid man sorry about the glassware though, a real shame
could you possibly boil down the product from the nitric acid apparatus to make it more concentrated ?
Yes, you can. You could do this all the way until you've concentrated to the azeotrope with water (~68%) however at that point and even for a while beforehand you would be losing a great deal of nitric acid as both it and water leave the system, boiling away in similar proportions.
Buddhafollower by directly feeding the NO2 into water, you could probably make it to around 20% before losing a massive percentage of NO2 since it’s solubility rapidly decreases as acidity increases. A method of further concentration is almost certainly needed for any practical application of the acid.
If you don’t need to directly make the acid and are instead looking to maximize yield of the nitrate anion, feeding the NO2 into an excess of ammonium hydroxide solution is the best way to go about that
Guys, since over in my country I dont get nitric acid, this video helps me a lot.
Glad to help
Would you get more nitric acid into the water solution if you bubbled it through the vortexed water?
Yes, you definitely would.
@DBX Labs thanks for the quick reply.
It would be cool to get a few 250w solar panels off of Ebay and get it running by itself outside off of Sunlight. Each day you could have it running for 8-12 hours depending on how much sunlight you get. If you get a large enough water supply you wouldn't have to change it very often.
Benjamin Painter I’ll have to look into trying that out. Unfortunately EBay panels have to pretty damn expensive shipping.
I think you should run at higher pressures say 4 to 10 bar but nice work 👍🤓
Classic. I've never ever once heard something like this in all these scienc videos. 11.40 ,,, " It just fucks off into the atmosphere " 😲
Sounds like a one night stand... 😂😂😂
So i do wonder, would using laughing gas (already partially oxidized nitrogen) and oxygen maybe give a better yield?
@Pearson Brown I have a similar expectation.
See thats actually being helpful c:
@XXX M Yes you're right. I tend to get irritated with people when they act like I did lol.
I'm curious though. So in your country you can purchase laughing gas but not nitric acid? That's interesting. In the U.S. you can buy both (pretty sure) but misuse of the gas is illegal. Honestly I have no idea how they'd find out if you were huffing the stuff.
@Pearson Brown Europe is funny like that, plus each country has slightly different rules and exceptions.
Also, its not illegal for me to buy nitric here, just none of the places selling it sell to private individuals. Like they won´t even sell isopropyl alcohol to you.
@XXX M Hmm, what about sigma aldrich? Also, they won't sell you isopropyl alcohol? That's ridiculous. Isopropyl is a safe consumer product. Can you at least buy it at a local store as an antiseptic?
@Pearson Brown Sure you can buy it there, thats what you get in drugstores.
Sigma won´t sell to you here unless you have a business.....
technically you can legally open a business with like 400 bucks, but ye its wierd
13:17 you are far away from anhydrous here. But for a measurement it's sufficient.
what software did you use to blur the image of the eBay page for the diffuser funnel?
75$ for a 500ml 3 outlet glass reactor globe? woah. Got mine for 28$ CAD on ebay!
75 is including the hose adapters but yeah it wasn't a cheap 3 neck for sure
How would you compress it and make Liquid Nitrogen?
"That's kind of how I feel right now"
I know that feel bro
incredible...smart kid... Max Hodak...one of the smartest people I know...work w him on some projects...make Woolly Mammoths? No limit to what you can do...
what is the efficiency if you use, lets say 50% hydrogen peroxide/water solution instead of just water
Can’t say I know what it would be but it could likely eliminate the need for a two stage bubbling system following the reaction. I likely lost some NOx since in the dissolution of NO2 into water, NO2 is generated (nitrous acid decomposition) and I’m sure the H2O2 could pick all that up.
What is the concentration of the nitric acid from the first process
I've been able to get it up to about 10% before I lose large amounts of NO2 due to its lower absorption rate in acid.
You can scrub nitrogen oxide gas with sodium hydoxide or any hydroxide dessolved in water or just have multi water cointainers in siries like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TjFQMGizYM
Hello, could you explain why you put it in the oven, rather than just distilling it? Is it to remove all of the water? Also, why do you add ammonia to your solution? Just trying to understand a bit more. Please and thanks!
Also what concentration is your H2SO4? And where did you happen to get it? Please and thanks again
Okay i get know you put it in the oven to get the anhydrous ammonium nitrate
Now*
You have higher yield when you build your stove Schönherr style. But its more complikatet because i think you need an real compressor.
How long does it take to be concentrated too ?
Wodiy Diy several days in my setup
@DBX Labs The concentration ratio is low, the method is not suitable for making a large amount ?
Wodiy Diy the concentration starts to plateau around 30% as NO2 has a harder time dissolving in acid than water. That’s why keeping a low concentration is good for production efficiency.
@DBX Labs How to raise concentration ؟
thank you very much .
Will corona discharge work instead of short circuit arc ~
Unfortunately that wouldn’t work. Where a hot plasma arc produces substantial amounts of both NO2 and Ozone, the only apparent product of corona discharge is ozone.
I wonder why Senkuu from Dr. Stone (Anime) didn't try this. But excellent video, you have yourself a new subscriber
How loud is the reactor?
The hated ones only thing that makes noise is the arc traveling up the wires and it’s quieter than a running microwave.
Good stuff, here's a comment for the algorithm. Sucks what happened to your glassware though.
I have a microwave transformer
I'm having a hard time to figure how to use it
It keeps overheating and the spark is so small
Koukou Zee yeah MOTs are no joke. They WILL kill before you hit the ground. I suggest you make sure you are using the secondary output and not just the sensory outputs typically hooked into the secondary circuit. Typically, there’s only one secondary output which will provide 2100VAC in series with the core of the transformer. Be safe, there’s lots of tutorial videos on MOTs on YouTube.
Interesting! But not a good idea in Germany, Bavaria. Here a kilowatt hour costs 35 eurocents (40 us-cents) xD
so basically you have to put a Jacob's ladder in a glass jar
Copper Chopper with extra steps
63.285USD/MT is the cost per Metric Ton for sulphuric acid yes I am seeing it listed on Amazon and Ebay at $40 CAD per Litre!!! WTF??? I need a good source online for buying my products :(
@DBX Labs I have an electrolysis setup so maybe ill do the Copper Sulfate way. Canada can be such a cucked country sometimes. Sigh...
ScienceRust that’s still a difficult process, especially concentrating it after electrolysis. You should make sure there’s no sulfuric based drain cleaners that you can buy
@DBX Labs Luckily i found Alphachem which is a Canadian supplier and I am able to get 4 Litres of 50% Concentrate for roughly $45 CAD I assume I can further concentrate it if need be. I want to make Nitric acid concentrate. That is my end goal.
ScienceRust do you mean concentrated nitric acid? How concentrated?
@DBX Labs Yes that's what I mean. I want to do the Nitrile glove test like you did in your video.
Extractions&Ire - 2020-08-02
Fantastic! Real sad about the glassware... I totally get the feeling about cleaning it up, but glad you got it working!
Wells Benedict - 2021-08-25
I know im randomly asking but does anyone know of a method to log back into an instagram account??
I was stupid lost the account password. I appreciate any tips you can give me.
Kannon Braylon - 2021-08-25
@Wells Benedict Instablaster =)
Will O - 2021-11-06
But is it illegal glassware lol
Samuel Allan - 2021-12-27
@Will O Glassware is not illegal, no