Mentour Pilot - 2024-12-29
Get an exclusive NordVPN deal here ➼ https://nordvpn.com/pilot It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ----------------------------------------------------- Following the catastrophe of Lion Air flight 610, the last thing Boeing would have wanted was another fatal incident involving one of their new 737 MAX aircraft. Sadly, this is exactly what came just months later with the tragic crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. But just like the Lion Air flight that came before it, the case of Ethiopian 302 is widely misreported and misunderstood. The much vilified MCAS certainly played its part in this crash too, but upon close inspection of the final report, it's also clear that some key decisions at Boeing put these pilots and passengers in unnecessary danger. In today's video, we take a closer look at what happened on Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and how it changed aviation forever. ----------------------------------------------------- If you want to support the work I do on the channel, join my Patreon crew and get awesome perks and help me move the channel forward! 👉🏻 https://www.patreon.com/mentourpilot 737 Course: 👉🏻 Visit https://www.virtual737course.com to learn how to fly a 737 like Petter in our virtual 737 SIM course Make sure to use code "mentournow" for 20% off! ✈️ Our Connections: 👉🏻 Exclusive Mentour Merch: https://mentour-crew.creator-spring.com 👉🏻 Premium Mentour Artwork: https://electrify.art/mentour-pilot 👉🏻 Our other channel: youtube.com/mentournow 👉🏻 Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/shop/mentourpilot 👉🏻 BOSE Aviation: https://boseaviation-emea.aero/headsets Social: 👉🏻 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MentourPilot 👉🏻 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mentour_pilot 👉🏻 Twitter: https://twitter.com/MenTourPilot 👉🏻 Discord server: https://discord.gg/JntGWdn Download the FREE Mentour Aviation app for all the latest aviation content 👉🏻 https://www.mentourpilot.com/apps/ Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. SOURCES -----------------------------------------------------
It's so infuriating to think that a senior pilot from Ethiopia asked specificallaly about mcas and was just hand waived away. People should go to jail for that
It's really sad
Lion Air asked for MAX simulator training before the plane went into service. Boeing told them no basically. Internal emails show that Boeing staff referred to them as “idiots.”
This is Boeing, the only people going to jail would be their passengers. So I fully expect the NTSB to charge all of the dead passengers and in absentia, for them to be found guilty of all faults surrounding this accident. The FAA will never admit fault and also we are regular people, we don't have any pull with their donors so our words or hopes or fears are as good as a YouTube comment in 2016 prospectively saying that "MCAS would/could be deadly": 0%. IF A SENIOR PILOT was actively ignored so that all those people could be killed by the fully functioning Boeing airplane, yeah no one is going to jail nor is there a chance to communicate or achieve any meaningful oversight or change. The pilot's email was fully ignored and purposefully, no one at Boeing give a single thought to the lives or safety of the lives of their passengers.
I wonder what role nationality and race played there.
@guillermom2365 It may have, but what does it tell you. Perhaps if Africa wasn't all third world countries. And who fault is that? Even though Vietnam is not a developed country, if a Vietnamese pilot contacted Boeing, you think they would have been waived? Absolutely not.
I knew the pilot of ET 302, met him many times. One day, I was standing at the forward galley, asking for water, before we took off. A man exited the cockpit, and looked like he couldnt be more than 22 years old. He told me he was the pilot, of course I was shocked. he was kind, gracious, humble man. From time to time, we would see each other in Addis Airport, and I flew with him again, and used to jokingly call him, ''my son.'' The Ethiopians are such kind, humble people. May Yared Getachew rest in peace
I am sorry for your loss..
Thank you for sharing your memories of him
Rest in peace Yared. Your efforts were not in vain.
Sorry for your loss.
to everyone calling this bs: you guys wouldn’t really know would you guys?
I love that you include these "you didn't notice" segments to shut up everyone who says "I would've noticed immediately"
They could have just kept trimming tho, I mean why would they stop trimming up
@supremelord8605 idk, but it's been consistent over all these crashes, the pilots do not really trim up more than 1-2 seconds. I'm no pilot so I hope someone can chime in, but what I get from these videos is that it's highly irregular to trim more than just a few seconds, so the assumption is "trim button is not working"
The stabilizer is very powerful, and therefore large, sudden movements of it can easily induce an upset (as we see at the end of this very video!). Therefore, pilots are trained to use their trim buttons only in extreme moderation. It would go against everything he had been taught about trimming for the captain to jam his finger onto “nose-up” and leave it there for twenty seconds. Given a little more time or fewer distractions, it’s possible that he could have realized that this was necessary. But while acting on instinct and habit, it’s just not something pilots do.
@supremelord8605 well you have to take into account the situation they were in. SO many things were happening at once and they likely didn't even understand at the time that the Electrical trim input that they were inputting did basically nothing because MCAS was way more powerful and faster. They technically would have needed to trim for tens of seconds for anything to change in the trim but then again, MCAS would just come back and change it back to worse.
@Schaddn but when you trim the wheel moves so they would have known that it was working tho I’m open for correction.
I am not a pilot. But the thought of your plane warning you to pull up while simultaneously forcing you to pitch down is terrifying.
Putting it that way, it sounds like someone saying "stop hitting yourself" while using your hand to "hit" you 😢 Just horrifying
Well they could have just slow down, they trusted stick shaker over primary instruments.. Thats kind of basic failure.. I wouldn't say Ethiopian is good airline with amazing training.
@Gmancro929They knew the stick shaker warning was spurious, and reducing thrust as the video said would have both required them to take their hand off the controls and wouldn’t have helped much.
@Gmancro929 you would have pissed your pants bruh if you were faced with such a situation only minutes after takeoff. The MCAS system was so strong that pilots basic recovery as suggested by boeing wasnt gonna work anymore
It's so wild that a program that was just supposed to offset a slight differential in lift so the pilot wouldn't notice the new engines drove these planes into the ground.
it’s crazy how everything discussed in the video happened in only 6 minutes.. truly heartbreaking
Yes, exactly - and that has to be taken to notice when judging about the performance of the pilots. They did the very best possible in their situation, but this situation was simply overwhelming and they had no chance for winning the battle of their life.
It took a lot longer than 6 minutes for investigators to find out what happened. If you have to choose 1 first (which was a choice the pilots had) then they needed to re-gain control before working out what was going on.
Yeah it can't be understated the pressure these pilots were under and how hard they fought
You should see the story of the concord and several others, 10 mins is a lot in aviation as it occurs.😢
I’m not a pilot, but it seems that there is too much technology. Backup after backup systems which reduces or negates operator input might result in a culture where the pilot does not have the sense of basic piloting. Secondly, narcissism has to be studied when dealing with the younger generation entering the work world. Technology has resolved their problems from a young age and critical thinking skills may not be developed to the same level older folks have. These older folks are also implementing the systems based on their critical thinking knowledge. Clearly, there was a lack of training in this instance. But I continually see ads for pilot recruiting. This will result in the need to rush training. I believe this combined with the narcissism(that is technology will fix this so I can shortcut training) will have drastic effects in our world, not only on piloting!!
The flight that crashed Boeing. Those poor pilots, literally fighting the aircraft and figuratively fighting Boeing's systematic cost-cutting policy. This is really heart-breaking.
It is criminal. Blood is on Boeing's "hands."
Worst part is: no one is going to prison for this, Boeing only needs to pay some fine. There really need to be reforms to corporate law, so that management / executives are personally liable for a company's actions.
Flight that crashed boing was merger with McDonell Douglas.
a boeing also crashed today in south korea
@Giulsgiulia Oh no.. there is video of it too.. overshoots runway and slams into a wall.
As an Ethiopian, I can say that Ethiopian Airlines is more than just an organization for many of us—it’s a symbol of national pride and achievement. The crash was a devastating event for the entire country, and it struck especially close to home as my town was nearest to the crash site. I’d like to say እናመሰግናለን [inameseginalen](Thank you) to Petter for providing such high-quality content as always.
If the pilot in this video is any indication of the skill and courage of the rest of your pilots then your national honor was only increased by this sad incident. All blame accrues to Boeing.
We feel your pain.
Even in far off Australia we hold Ethiopian Airlines in high regard. Such a shining light for that part of the world
Don't be fooled by Boeing fan boy. He is paid by Boeing to deflect blame away from Boeing. Your pilot did a great job, but this guy is paid to defend Boeing and pass the blame to him.
"Looks like Boeing may have just killed another ~175 people, but on the other hand, doing something about it might be bad for the shareholders" re the latest flight disaster Jeju Air South Korea. Don't fall for this nonsense, he is paid well by Boeing to produce videos saying this stuff!!
LOL Boeing was like, "It's not that we built planes that suddenly and unpredictably crash themselves, the problem is the pilots didn't do some elaborate, non-intuitive sequence of events to undo the sudden and unpredictable crash feature we created."
well makes much more sense now when put that way
Pretty much.
"And we give these pilots three seconds to accomplish that."
not unlike the health insurance company who covers less anesthesia so the surgeons have shortened operation times. It’s the same greed.
Like "trim up more"?
I'm not trying to say MCAS is a perfect system because it was VERY clearly flawed in its implementation and the whole self-regularion thing needs to also be looked at AND ALSO, I think it's fair to ask why a pilot wouldn't try to trim the aircraft back to a neutral stick force. Were they under the impression manual electric trim wasn't working? Were they taught to only do momentary small trims instead of large trims? Is there a reason why you wouldn't trim all the way?
I'm not a pilot, just a guy, safe in his living room, reading about an incident with the luxury of knowing the aircraft's state without any doubt, something the pilots didn't have obviously, but I still have to wonder if the pilots themselves didn't do enough. Because as insidious as MCAS was, it wasn't a death sentence as long as you kept trimming to compensate.
I am a cabin crew and I was flying in MAX in between those two accidents. I wasn't (and many of my colleagues) too happy about it because a) we were primarily on airbus and b) the Lion Air accident wasn't really solved in my opinion. So when I was scheduled on MAX flight, after the briefing I asked our captain what did he think about the accident and MAX and he said and I'm quoting: "It was a crew mistake, we are better trained, so don't worry about it." Two days later this accident happened and they grounded MAX's and I'm not kidding when I say every single one of my collegues (possibly all over the world) had the same thought: This could've been me.
It's sounds arrogant to say we're better trained. If the pilots were from developed countries like from USA or UK, I kind of doubted if they will save those 2 max planes.
@andikardian9014 Yeah, that's the point. They weren't and they aren't better trained. But that was the thinking at the time, that Lion Air just had incompetent pilots when it fact it was a ticking time bomb and pulling a short stick.
Wow
I bet that to this day he still remembers what he told you. I think that he really believed that, so it must have been a shock when he understood the truth
Hi. Yes, those of us that know better, ( existing problem, Re-occurs , “pilot error “). GTFOH ❗️. It’s vulgar. RIP the two men who told the world!
I think the end of this video hits the nail on the head. MCAS was never a needed system for safety. The function of MCAS is for Boeing's bottom line, trying to quick fix a losing battle against their rival. In a perfect world it would never exist and Boeing would develop the true next generation of aircraft instead. Even if the problem is now fixed, a lot of people are scared to fly in Boeing aircraft because of the sloppiness they showed in the MCAS example. And I must admit I also feel uneasy thinking about how they cut corners that should have never been cut.
Not helped by, just as the world was getting back on its feet, Alaska Airlines losses a door plug midflight and the absolute insane Quality Control problems that brought to light.
1. Save Boeing money
2. Confuse the shit out of pilots and crash planes
You should check out his Mentour Now! videos on the Airbus A220! Especially the one entitled "Did Boeing give Airbus a free airplane?"
Boeing actually had the opportunity to buy a stake in the A220 when it was the Bombardier C-Series, which could've been the plane they needed to compete with the A320neo, which was the only reason they built the MAX to begin with.
BUT instead of buying it they tried to kill it with a bogus trade complaint and got tariffs imposed on the C-Series after Delta Airlines decided to order the C-Series instead of the MAX. Bombardier actually offered Boeing a chance to buy a share of the C-Series program again at that point, but they turned it down. The sanctions against Bombardier ended up getting overturned, Boeing lost a contract to sell F-18s to the Canadian government, Airbus ended up buying the C-Series for $1 and Boeing ended up putting out an inferior plane... that caused these crashes, all because they preferred to cut corners and do things cheaply than spend money on a good plane. And that's going to keep biting their butts for years
Boeing subsequently forgetting to attach 4 out of 4 bolts on a door plug didn't exactly help restore the publics faith in Boeing! - "Proudly all Boeing... Except for the 99.99% made by our countless subcontractors like Spirit Aerosystem!"
@TecraX2 have you read about the Spirit saga? Boeing sold Spirit to raise cash and make their balance sheet look better, and then ended up basically being forced to buy them back for more money to resolve major quality problems 😬😭
As an airline Captain approaching retirement, after nearly 20,000 flying hours, I fully understand the operational requirements, tasks, and actions these two men were faced with. The extreme challenges encountered by this crew were completely unexpected, strikingly tangible and deeply relatable. By the end of the video, I was physically nauseated and emotionally drained. I can't think of a better testament to the exceptional quality and realism of this presentation. I would say “kudos”, if it was not an understatement.
Wow. 20k is amazing.
This video had the same agitating effect on me. Other videos have deeply moved me, but here it really was a combination of (a) extremely heavy pulling, (b) a battle they could not win, and (c) pure despise against those at Boeing responsible for continuing to keep the truth under wraps after the deadly warning of the Lion Air disaster. They never faced persecution. May it be a heavy yolk pulling at them for the rest of their lives for the sake of the passengers and crew whose deaths they could have prevented.
I pushed the red button to make it all stop. They didn't have that option.
Having to constantly pull back over 100lbs on a control stick would exhaust even the most jacked body builders.
Truly sickening actions by Boeing, in the end the simulator ended up mandatory, the system was super faulty when released to the public and after a truly horrible accident to shift the blame to the airline and pilots, just despicable.
After two horrible tragedies maybe the 737 Max is super safe, but it shouldn't have taken this many lives to figure it out, mostly when it's plain and obvious they were cutting corners at every turn@Eddyspeeder
When you gave the pilot and first officer's ages, I felt so sick to my stomach. They were so young and, from what you said, they both seemed to have bright and illustrious careers and lives ahead of them. And of course, the rest of the crew and all the passengers. What a tragedy 😢
I was in high school at the time and one of my classmates was on the flight, along with her sister, parents, and grandparents going from Canada to Kenya to visit where her father had grown up during March break. It really rocked our entire school, it was terrifying to think what they must have felt in the final seconds of the flight
@LemonminerThe Njoroges?
Important to remember everyone: "it only occurs with the autopilot disengaged" is not very reassuring when all these multiple failures usually cause the autopilot to disengage because the aircraft cannot rely on it's instrument's data to fly it safely
Isnt that insane? How did Boeing even think someone could land an aircraft, that freaks out when the autopilot is disengaged? They created a dilemma instead of a solution and that should have been clear right away. Also, that they obviously didnt even try out in a simulator what happens when the trim is already way down and stab trim gets turned off shows the arrogance involved.
@_Dibbler_ Oh I certainly think that they intentionally downplayed the severity of MCAS to categorize it as minor to avoid sim training. And so they conveniently "forgot" catastrophic factors such as "the fucking system resets when it's trimmed so it'll continually re-engage," "the issue with the AOA sensor means MCAS will always activate alongside a slew of other failures that need prioritizing as well," "the runaway stabilizer procedure wouldn't be defaulted to when MCAS does not act like a runaway stabilizer," "pilots that do not know MCAS exists will not be able to respond in a fast and appropriate manner," and this one, "autopilot will disengage when the broken AOA sensor causes seven different failures in the span on 30 seconds."
@ on the "the runaway stabilizer procedure wouldn't be defaulted to when MCAS does not act like a runaway stabilizer" note; internal Boeing documents that were released (leaked, maybe?) showed that they actually did expect pilots to respond to erroneous MCAS activation as if it were a runaway trim scenario. Then, after the Lion Air crash, Boeing released a pilot bulletin stating that the runaway trim procedure should be a memory item (a not-so-subtle way of saying that the Lion Air crash was caused by poor pilot training and not by their murderous plane).
They really thought pilots would treat MCAS activating for no fkn reason, over and over again, as if it were a runaway trim situation, despite it not behaving anything like said situation. It was straight up criminal negligence and it boils my blood to this day that not one person from Boeing was held criminally responsible for the deaths of 349 people.
Lack of pilot training.
@sharoncassell5273 Boeing paid a multi-billion dollar settlement which included hundreds of millions to the victims' families in addition to a +$200M criminal fine. Even they knew that inadequate pilot training was not the primary cause of these crashes.
As a programmer, the fact that the computer systems didn’t immediately disable MCAS, the autopilot, and the stick shaker as well as all the safety protections when the AOA sensor disagree malfunction happened is baffling. If the sensors don’t agree then all of those systems aren’t just useless, they’re dangerous.
So many of these accidents are caused by automation taking cues from faulty sensors. It shouldn’t be completely on the pilots to decide what to do in a vague situation like this while simultaneously trying to figure out which systems have gone wrong. At the first moment of disagreement, have all automations shut off and have “direct law” to use airbus speak, apply. Manual controls only for all systems. An aircraft taking all automation away is less scary than a phantom problem that cannot be diagnosed while the aircraft is moving weirdly
I work in the Oil & Gas and chemicals industries and worked with the control and emergency shutdown systems used. All ESD systems use 2 out of 3 voting for sensor inputs; control and ESD systems can detect when signals are out of range and flag them as faulty; the development of smart sensors that can diagnose faults; operators are able to over-ride faulty signals. This means the control and safety systems remain functional when there are sensor failures.
I just made the same comment a few minutes ago. Baffling indeed. Boeing put their own dubious interests above public safety.
But there's only one sensor active at a time. The algorithm alternates on different flights. So there's nothing to disagree with, unless you mean that the program should disable MCAS if the sensor gives a nonsense reading. Another fatal flaw is that the program had no limit to how far and how long it would command the stabilizer trim to keep going until it reached obviously deadly nose down angles. Just a dumbfounding program. Unbelievably dangerous.
I have the same background and commented basically the same thing when Petter released his first videos on this a couple of years ago. In critical systems like this, 2 is 1, 1 is none. Of course, an airplane manufacturer like Boeing knows this, which made it even more baffling..
However, in lieu of the revelations of questionable quality control etc. throughout the organization which has come to light since then, it doesn’t really surprise as much.
It’s a cultural thing that runs deep and will be extremely hard to change - I honestly doubt they’ll be able to do so, but I guess time will tell..
@michaelhansen7516 Indeed.
Rest in peace Captain Yared Getachew & FO Ahmednur Mohammed. They did their best given the circumstances but it was a losing battle with a hidden system equiped with superior powers. That email the Ethiopian airlines engineer wrote to Boeing BEFORE the accident needs to be talked about more . Boeing killed all those people the executives deserve jail time.
Unfortunately, Boeing make a lot of money for the US, so it won't happen. That said, if it's not Airbus, I'm not going.
Granted , Boeing had introduced a problematic system on that model. However pilots are trained to handle emergencies, and these pilots didn't do a good job that would have saved all of the people on that plane. The crash was due to the poorly behaving crew, not the airplane.
@virginiafrank317I am not quite sure if you watched the same video I watched.
Yes, the situation could have been saved. But it is very clearly shown that the complex situation the plane, and solely the plane, brought the crew into very suddenly during a very critical phase of flight had a high chance of overwhelming the crew. Any 737 pilot will agree with that. Blaming the crew is utterly inappropriate.
@virginiafrank317And if you don't believe me, maybe you could check out what Captain Sully had to say about it...
This is a really good example (in an unfortunate way) of what happens when companies get greedy and cut corners.
Back in the 1970's, the aviation industry was well aware of McDonnell Douglas' poor reputation, thanks to the issues with the DC-10. When I found out that Boeing was merging with them in the late 90''s , I literally became sick to my stomach. McDonnell Douglas was a second rate company with a reputation for profits over safety. The 737 was a troubled plane BEFORE the merger but bringing in corrupt executives from MDD, certaintly didn't help matters .
@jocelynharris-fx8ho the 737 was the best selling plane of all time, how exactly was it “troubled” before the merger?
True. Boeing AND the airlines involved with the various crashes. Airlines clearly cutting training corners severely. Runaway stabilizer is really really early in the list of shit you get drilled into your head when training for the 737. MCAS fuckery or runaway stabilizer? For the pilot, in that moment, ZERO difference. In under 2 seconds you fix it with a quick flip of a switch that is exceptionally easy to reach (base of throttle).
one of the things that always gets me, is that they are obviously getting the “too low, terrain” warning, but not a single person at boeing thought to tie that into MCAS and make sure that it stopped pitching down if it sensed that the aircraft was too low. like I get that it was often used at takeoff when the altitudes were already low, but I feel like if you already have the radar and positioning sensors that can warn you about altitude, it shouldn’t be that hard to write a line of code in the MCAS that would disable it in the case of another one of those warnings. seems like a “terrain” (i.e. you’re about to crash the goddamn plane) warning should supersede any of the other automated systems that may be providing pitch down input…
it also makes my blood boil that MCAS was literally only supposed to provide simuLATED YOLK FORCE so the aircraft “felt” like the old 737s to handle. at what point does it make ANY sense to give a system designed simply to make a pilot feel more comfortable the ability to catastrophically control the aircraft, ESPECIALLY when its signals are based on a single point failure ?!? like good lord… I work in aerospace & defense for a direct competitor to boeing, and there are DOZENS of levels of checks & balances to ensure that no mission-critical function can ever operate on a single point failure. I’m so heartbroken for what all these pilots, passengers, and crew had to deal with because of boeing’s greed, ignorance, and megalomania.
Excellently stated. Fully agree.. Boeing were criminally culpable.
They simply gave 0 thoughts to the "what of the system fails" question. (Or deliberately ignored)
Exactly! I'm sitting here thinking, "You didn't code in altitude failsafes... why?" Or consider that the only/most likely reason a pilot would be flying manually outside a certain distance from ground would be a failure of automatic systems *which would mean co-indications that would hamper fault diagnosis*??
You're actually right. They deliberately ignored all checks just because of profit.
A horrible company
Wow, request for pilot training is "dangerous" precedent, but a system that can fly an aircraft full of people into an ocean is not dangerous enough to mention in the manual?
Guess "dangerous for profits" is more important than "dangerous for human life".
Yeah… it was pretty awful
Exactly, even after getting such a great presentation of all the technical facts my mind only goes to the fact that Boeing ignores any common sense as long as it will increase their profits, safety be damned.
Yeah but you're forgetting, if the pilots had been American, something something
I used to fly with Boeing a lot, I guess I'm just lucky to be alive...😳
For a company of this size, human lives are nothing but a resource like gas, oil, electricity, metals, machines. All we can is accept this fact and accept that some lives will be sactificed and there's no way around it.
This hurts my heart. These poor pilots. When they get failed by the system, it's so hard to watch. How terrifying!
They were incompetent and their incompetence killed a lot of people.
No@Drunken_Master
@Drunken_Master sounds to me like Boeing and their training was incompetent and lacking. And THEY killed a lot of people.
@Drunken_Masterexcept they were not incompetent
@xthereaper8434please don’t feed the trolls
"Thats why most of you didn't notice that the background of my office has now switched from white to blue, or that my cup is different" <- this right here was an AMAZING way of showing our natural faults as humans. Once again Captain, you prove that we are truly just students when we come and watch these videos. Thankyou for all your hard work in finding new ways to teach
That was brilliant.
The design of the crew alerting system on the 737 probably played a role here in the pilots' failure to notice the instrument warnings, assuming they appeared. The presentation of the instrument failures wasn't very ergonomic. I believe the fact that the IAS DISAGREE and ALT DISAGREE warnings would appear underneath the primary flight displays make them easier to miss when the pilots' attention is elsewhere, especially with the AOA vane failure that occurred at the same time. There is also no indication on the recall panel that there is an instrument discrepancy, like there was with the AOA vane failure (ANTI ICE). If this aircraft was equipped with EICAS, the pilots would more than likely have noticed the instrument failures.
Outstanding work, Petter! Netflix can't hold a candle to your explanation of the 737MAX/ MCAS and what happened with Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes. It's refreshing to see a social media outlet report the facts, causes, remedies, and outcome without any sort or rhetoric or sensationalism. This truly pays the proper respect and tribute for the loss of life. Keep up the great work! PS...your "didn't notice" is very effective in illustrating human behavior of missing items when focused on the primary function at hand....in this case, flying the plane with myriad distractions. That puts things in very clear perspective for the non-aviator. Excellent tool!
I agree, that kind of 'live demonstration' of a principle is absolutely world-class! Love it
Netflix doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned, they’re a joke
GhGh-gq8oo, what is the point of your comment? It makes no sense. Who lied, and what political objective?
He’s kinder to Boeing than i would be. I understand why of course, and I’m not the kind of weirdo that wouldn’t get on a 737. But I don’t believe that they’ve solved the systemic corporate issues that they have. They’ve applied expensive sticking plasters, and self flagellated a bit. But I very much doubt they’ve fundamentally changed. The Max is safe enough now. But the next one? And the one after that. Hmmm
Netflix disney does not entertain anymore they sell propaganda and telling the truth and facts would affect another AMERICAN COMPANY, AND SINCE AMERICAN GOVT CARE ABOUT MONEY THAN LIVES, TRUTH WOULD NOT SEE THE LIGHT. THERE IS NO WAY THEY MISSED INFORMATION OR LACKED AND EXPERT TO CONSULT ON THE MATTER....THESE DAYS 99% of MOVIES ARE SELLING a WOKE AGENDA THAN entertainment and selling AMERICAN HEGEMONY rather THAN FACTS ...DID YOU SEE Oppenheimer TELL SO MANY LIES IN THE FILM?
You know it was a huge tragedy when one local, very hated, politician from my country received unanimous support and condolences from everyone after losing wife and 2 kids in that plane.
Agreed, that kind of tragedy shouldn't happen to anyone whether or not they are liked/disliked for their politics.
@justvid366 NuSpirit_ wrote about Anton Hrnko - slovakian politician
@AN-12345 Indeed. But if it happened to Trump or Biden, I can guarantee that a large number of people would be unable to contain their glee.
@6yjjk Oh how I wish I could disagree with you here, and that's incredibly sad to me.
@6yjjk That's because everyone hates Hunter as well.
This was one of the most covered accidents in the last decades for sure and yet this video gave so much more insight on it.
I was always under the impression that using the stab trim cutout switches would've been the solution that would've solved everything. My heart sank when you explained the impossible physical forces needed to do it manually under these unforeseeable circumstances.
Thank you for the incredible work!
I was thinking the exact same thing, i remember shortly after the accident an airline pilot posted a video of how to use the stab trim cutout switches in the event of MCAS failure.
What i find odd about the stam trim cutout switches in off position is then no trimming is possible, making a down trim situation incorrectable...all very complicated!
@ I probably have to watch the video again but from what I gather the pilots were exhausted physically from pulling on the yolk with 90lbs of pressure, hindsight is 20/20 but while both were pulling back a third person such a as a flight attendant could have turned the trim wheel.
@janmale7767 Well the idea of those switches is to correct a runaway electrical system, like shorted out motor wiring. So for that application the way these work is correct. But not having another cut out switch for every system that can actuate the electrical trim is an oversight. Or as someone else pointed out having the automation systems shut themselves down when they detect implausible data. The Airbus direct law is exactly that I think.
Basically Boeing murdered every single soul on board of those 2 planes. How it wasn't faced with penalties large enough to make the company declare bancrupcy plus criminal charges for all those in upper management who pushed for this is beyond me.
Boeing's refusal to respond to the Pilot's questions is just the icing on the cake of the gross negligence they displayed in this dilemna. They screwed up really badly, and had an opportunity to fix it, but instead, they tried to avoid accountability and let hundreds more die in an attempt to cover up their faults.
Hindsight is a truly wonderful thing. Anyone who thinks they could do better would never know until they're suddenly thrust into a situation unlike most have expected or experienced before.
Exactly
Truth
tbf, all he had to do was trim. It was clear he realized at some point it was the altitude vein. All he had to do was trim with the joystick. But ya mcass was designed stupidly to begin with.
@blaynestaleypro trim for like 10 secs which is completely against everything you're taught.
@MentourPilot I'm not a pilot nor have I had any training. My "instinct" was to try something similar to the "roller coaster" maneuver. It just seemed like it MIGHT have a chance. Btw, I pressed that "red button" for you RIGHT AWAY.
"Press the red button; press the red button NOW." Yikes! Never thought I heard of an airline pilot saying that in a simulator before today.
SAME
What does this actually do?
@ralfrudi3963i think petter said it stops/freezes the sim
@ralfrudi3963relieved the poor pilot or didn’t you watch it??
@jt8273 Yeah I got that, but what does that mean and why was it so urgent to press it?
Is it bad to crash the plane in the simulator? Can you rewind or change something and try again?
I am just wondering why it was so urgent.
14:48 that is a unacceptable answer. Boeing wanted to blame pilots, when in reality they were the ones that cause the accident.
As a software engineer myself, I cannot even fathom how ANYONE can write a program like MCAS that takes an input and "forever" acts upon it (perpetually) without ANY constraints ... AND without sanity-checking the input to begin with ... (i.e. taking it from 1 source only without ANY doubts). This seems like horribly written software by a junior developer with little to NO experience whatsoever. Heck, even when you're writing code for a dumb login page on a website you ALWAYS "range" and "sanity" check your input ... and you make sure your functions never ever recursively run "forever" and you ALWAYS implement an exit condition ... WOW, the incompetence with this one BLOWS MY MIND! May all passengers and crew of this flight rest in peace.
As a programmer, i concur...That code must have been a loop without an exit clause or a catch statement....
@Phil-p2g its absolutely crazy to me that a basic while-true loop with no exit condition (or a recursive function) was probably the reason 100s died ... :(
I worked on a lot of different types of equipment and not only was it the software.They tied it to one AOA because believe it or not the second AOA is optional equipment. Then you can say the company knew exactly what they were doing having been in the airplane business forever.
And without any limits other than the physical movement range. Limiting it to, e.g., 3 as the minimum would have left the planes in a hard-to-fly but manageable position.
It is hard to understand why they would allow automated systems to bring the plane into a configuration that is not manageable by the pilots using the rest of the controls.
@HenryLoenwindtime to market and cost.
I knew a UNICEF member in that flight, my father's coworker. I always called her Aunt Anne, she also lived in our apartment complex near the Khartoum Airport, departing on this very flight for a work meeting. That last week at had met her and I dont think at the time it had really registered to me what had happened, throughout that week until the day of her funeral. She was a really sweet individual, and for me it was one of the pivital moments that got me interested in the story behind aviation. Rest in peace aunty, and thank you for inspiring me. ❤ 20:35
I'm so sorry for your loss. The best of us are often taken too soon. 😢
A friend of mine was there too.. Ironically his name was Max
I knew several people on this flight, and it was absolutely heartbreaking. Thirty-two of my fellow countrymen lost their lives that day. The pain and loss are unimaginable, and it’s something that will stay with us forever. May they all rest in peace, and may their memories never be forgotten.
Murdered by Boeing. I am so sorry for your great loss
So sorry 😢❤
I'm sorry for your loss in an accident that shouldn't have happened.
So sorry for your loss. 🙏
So sorry for your loss
Even with MCAS aside, it seems to me really weird that one faulty sensor is allowed to cause such a mayhem in the cockpit. Stick shaker, faulty speed readings, faulty altitude readings etc. It causes such a stress and workload to pilot that it just creates perfect environment to cause even more errors and problems. Such a powerful point of failure should either rely on multiple sensors or at least detect the faulty sensor and disconnect it.
Absolutely. Its surprising that such systems could ever be certified and approved for use. Adding the even worse MCAS system on top, and you have the complete disaster. So MCAS is now neutered to only try to f*** up once and then stop, but I wonder...are the rest of the systems still as brain-dead as before?
I have no aviation experience I am just a passenger. BUT I do fly 2 times a year home to South Africa from Hong Kong and always fly with Ethiopian. They are in my opinion one of the best airlines. I also found that their pilots are great. They nail each landing perfectly and soft and smooth. Turbulence also handled great every flight. I have found over the years that flights with them is much smoother than other main name airlines.
I used to watch Air Crash Investigations/Black Box because i was interested in the mechanics of investigating ait disasters etc.
The only thing i didn't like was the sensationalising they did.
Your videos from a pilot manage to give the details without being dry.
You are doing a lot of good work here petter and i've been watching since the very start.
Keep up the sterling work and Happy New Year!
Same! me and my mum were avid ACI watchers, but since finding MP I can't stand the overdramatization of the incidents, I'd rather have the clear facts in order without being thrown back and forth in timeframes like they used to in ACI and Seconds from Disaster.
@ToniTerrier good to know other people find the sensationaliaing of mass death distasteful. Which begs the question why do they do it?
@mitchyk sadly I think a large demographic of television watchers prefer the drama of a story rather than the details. So the programs are designed for them.
@mitchyk they need to do it for the network to pick their show. I personally enjoyed watching ACI. While being more of a dramatization, it was by far the most informative compared to the rest of the documentary. Also, the main reason for the popularity of ACI genre on Youtube is due to the success of Natgeo's ACI. I have asked my colleagues and friends, they all state the reason they watch this genre on youtube is because of their familiarity with Natgeo's ACI. As bad/good as it was, it clearly paved way to amazing content like this.
@F1SHY99 Indeed, exactly. And it has the merit to point out worldwide the necessity of safety management for the airline business.
My friend Max died in that crash… It is still so raw. This is the first time I actually will listen to anything related to it… Everything else was always sensationalism until now…
So sorry you lost Max.
May your friend rest in peace
Sorry for your loss. These plane manufacturers will pay for what they have done, some day.
My condolences. ❤✝️🕊
Saw another comment by you "ironically his named was Max"... Are you for real or are you just a troll seeking to joke by naming him Max...? If not you have my condolences... RIP.
I feel so sad when Petter says "well, we will never know for sure". You know it's a bad ending.
Tbh in this one most people would know from the beginning cuz it's in pretty recent history so we all remember the news.
The fact that the 737 max was created with the requirement that no pilots would be required to train for the new plane is incredible. They cut the corners from the very start of the design. This is a clear prioritization of money over human lives.
Pulling 83 kilos and hearing a pull up, on it's own it's insane. But in this situation, just another drop in leaking bucket.. I could not have asked for better pilots if I were in that plane. I am proud of how smart and hard they did their jobs to their abilities.. they were heroes in my eyes. and sometimes even heroes can't win. R.i.p. heroes..
And then we have people sitting in their comfort seats trying to criticize them.
Those poor pilots weren't just dealing with one problem. In their minds they were facing many seemingly unrelated problems and then to have a system that is constantly undoing what you are trying to correct is crazy.
Not just undoing it, but actively making it worse each time you try to fix it
@biosparkles9442 I cannot imagine their fear, trying everything they could come up with and having the plane making it worse. Truly terrifying.
Added to the fact of being only 1500 ft above the ground 😣 that adds another layer of pressure. It’s the imminent doom of being too close to the ground, any wrong action can result in a crash in just a couple of seconds. Altitude and airspeed are the pilot’s best allies.
Like Sisyphus, constantly pushing the boulder up the hill and failing... Only the people onboard didn't do anything to deserve such punishment
@biosparkles9442Yes, expect pilots to make mistakes when you don't even train them for this issue.
I didn't think I would learn anything new after all your excellent previous videos, but your explanation that MCAS would trim down far faster than the pilots could trim up is truly disturbing.
The thing is the pilot trim switch would always override it anyway so it shouldn't matter but for one reason or another, training, muscle memory or whatever, they would just never do so more than a couple seconds. Far too little to counteract and usually not even in time to interrupt the MCAS input. With how it seems pilots actually use the trim system they should probably replace the switches with just a single button to set it to zero the yoke forces.
@TheAkashicTraveller literally trained from day one only to trim for a couple of seconds not bloody ten that would of been needed to stop MCAS, end of the day boeing knew it was a problem but just happy to leave it.
@TheAkashicTravellerBeyond what the other guy said, having a "reset-to-zero" button might be problematic - or at least, said "zero" would need to be calculated prior to takeoff, since trim is also used to correct for the aircraft's loading being off-centre. In other words, resetting the horizontal stabiliser to the exact middle position is not necessarily what you want.
But I think it actually might be a good idea regardless; a reset button next to the override switches.
@TheAkashicTraveller Yes, muscle memory failure. When automation confusion reigns go back to manually flying the plane, manually control the thrust levers for appropriate settings, disconnect auto pilot, level the plane with using trim until stick forces are reduced (not for two seconds). Too many of these incidents involve wrestling with the automation instead of switching it off.
@TheAkashicTravellerthey were having to pull up so hard that they couldn't trim! The wheel was stuck! And it takes 15 turns to get one unit!
It's crazy that Boeing assumed pilots would've been able to react within 3 seconds at all times, also that they put so much focus on avoiding additional simulation training for pilots.
These two MCAS videos are the best thing I have ever watched on this issue - so much for the whole industry to learn from. Very professional work from you, Petter, and your team. Many thanks - Paul
Petter's team's reiteration here of MCAS understanding was not a repeat of their LION video it was a further enhancement. Great education.
@daveelliott7715 thanks anyway, but I think I'll just simply drive my CL 600 to the location I have to go. I never wanna fly again.
This is one of those incidents that shakes your entire trust in the management of Aviation. Truly Devastating.
agreed, didn't have much confidence in Boeing at the start of 2024 and recent events have only made it worse
Never really had confidence on automated systems, after automatic transmission caused loss of torque by swapping bigger gear while drifting trough mirror ice covered corner and car slide on the snow bank. After that i have not bought or driven vehicle that has more than ABS brakes, cause i want to be one driving not the vehicle. Sudden change in the handling characteristics can easily disorientate even experienced driver and such assisting systems only erode drivers skills or worse never allow them to be created, taking them into far worse situation, witch point when these systems throw "error cant do shit anymore" driver has no feeling on what has or is happening, handling characteristics change due computer tilting and if they dont have experience on taking control back in such situation, there definitely is not enough time to learn there. Hence learn to drive with little as possible assisting systems and dont relay on them, while putting vehicle out of control in area where its safe to learn to take the control back with out danger to other, your self or the vehicle etc property. "ice" test training grounds you can forget if its not winter, since steel with oil in it is nowhere close to actual ice conditions btw. Also keep testing the capabilities of the vehicle over winter months like how good the traction you have from studded tires that are getting worn out, brakes etc so you are aware of the capabilities of the vehicle in different times.
Given modern airliners, i would not make as pilot since my first though would be to pull breakers on all the automated crap and fly manually...
Management seems to always be the problem.
Corporate greed. Nothing else to add.
Indeed, exactly.
The Ethiopians must be incredibly proud of this gem of an airline. I'm so sorry for the souls lost on this flight.
We really are. We rallied around to fight negative misinformation around the accident. I remember Ethiopian was among the early customers of the 787 as well and when battery issue started to occur, some idiots were commenting “how could they afford such brand new airplane”.
@AbebeAmare Westerners are manipulated in such a way they end up thinking the rest of the world is made of cavemen led by military juntas.
Media tries so hard to hide that there's other systems in the world that works better than the western one.
It's hardly a gem if you read Bernd Kai von Hoesslin's "Wasted Warnings." A whistleblower and pilot for ET, his book is a vivid glimpse into the inner workings of a highly corrupt airline that tried its hardest to deny deficiencies and never take responsibility, as was the case with their flight 409, 2nd guessing investigators who clearly found the real cause of that crash.
@AbebeAmare If it helps, i worked in a training center at an american Airline and most pilots respected Ethiopian Pilots. When my previous director, who was also a test pilot, told me about this incident, he told me that pilots knew this wasnt pilot error because Ethiopian Pilots were well respected and known to be great pilots in the industry.
Its always the media and business people trying to find a scapegoat.
@ you are nothing but a troll and know nothing about the airline.
The Boeing answers to the questions at 14:27 were evasive corporate nonsense, and are damning in placing responsibility on Boeing.
Thank you so much for doing this. I waited for 2 years for you to make this vid.
Yared was a family friend
I’m so sorry.
Im sorry for your loss 🖤
He wasn't even an REAL pilot ! He was just an AP pilot !
I´m sorry for your loss, too. May he rest in Peace. He did everything possible to rescue the aircraft and the lifes of the people on board.
So very sorry 😢❤
Ever since the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crash, I became borderline obsessed with this accident and aviation (in general). I spent month reading, watching and listening to everything I could get my hands on. As well as conversing with any pilot I could engage with. I came to the conclusion that much of the aviation world was wrong about what happened on that EA Flight 302 and I tried all that I could to do those victims justice by getting out the word (perhaps to little effect). Petter, you just told the story I've been telling to anyone who would listen for years. I can't thank you enough! Well done!!
sure you did buddy
@kaywhyess777lol, why would he make that up?
when i started to love aviation naturally crashes was something interesting and quickly became afraid of MAX planes like from boeing and honestly new boeing aircraft
@Stripesheal18 Because internet?
Huge kudos for explicitly mentioning you were in on this "pilot error" angle originally.
Respect for the pilots' professionalism and continuous efforts to solve the problems. RIP.
No xd they should have trimmed up
This so horrible. These were two young, talented pilots with glittering careers ahead of them.
Edit: Lol, I'm sure race isn't why all the people below are triggered. Not at all.
@McUsernameFace Are you dumb bro? What DEI? IT'S AN ETHIOPIAN AIRLINE.
umm, and over a hundred other people
@McUsernameFace VERY low effort bait. Ethiopian Airlines… of Ethiopia.
@McUsernameFace Please get your 80 IQ politics out of here
@krylesangerbeaver Racist spotted.
@MentourPilot - 2024-12-28
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@Augfordpdoggie - 2024-12-29
Ethiopias airport is pronounced Bo Lay
@armosinz1944 - 2024-12-29
How is the comment older then the video?!?!
@czarnyrobert9219 - 2024-12-29
Do you know what could be the purpose to build a mound (embankment) at the end of runway in Muan airport where 737 crashed yesterday?
On this embankment they positioned the approach lights. But why build such immense structure ? If it wasn't there, the plane probably would stop on the grass few hundred meters away.
@timoooo7320 - 2024-12-29
Are you really not going to address the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that you put out in your last video about lithium ion batteries?
@Wind_Wonders - 2024-12-29
@armosinz1944scheduled video