Philosophy Tube - 2022-02-25
As part of research project with the Royal Institution, we spoke to real people who have declined the covid vaccine to learn how they might be persuaded! https://www.patreon.com/PhilosophyTube Subscribe! http://tinyurl.com/pr99a46 Twitter: @PhilosophyTube Email: philosophytubebusiness@gmail.com Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/jgjek5w realphilosophytube.tumblr.com TELLTALE'S REPORT: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1i7yAb7y0yfJn0kek6FnHPru2HgrzI5hnpI4FWM819vA/edit BIBLIOGRAPHY: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR1wjgF8maeoJX90nzym9BppsgM-NsvVdErRNBE7bWRoqzNAhamYsr8SmZzENNdd5Ih9EN-mEh0U5yw/pub MUSIC The House Glows (With Almost No Help) by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Source: http://chriszabriskie.com/darkglow/ Artist: http://chriszabriskie.com/ The Dark Glow of the Mountains by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Source: http://chriszabriskie.com/darkglow/ Artist: http://chriszabriskie.com/ I Am Running Down the Long Hallway of Viewmont Elementary by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Source: http://chriszabriskie.com/honor/ Artist: http://chriszabriskie.com/ ‘Perfect Mind’ by SnakeCity Glasses by Black Eyewear - https://blackeyewear.com/ / @blackeyewear Metallic coat by Jayley - https://www.jayley.com/ / @jayleycollection Boots by Pleaser - https://pleasershoes.com/ / @pleasershoe 0:00 Intro 3:23 First Dose: The Study 8:13 Second Dose: The Results 15:52 Third Dose: Learning from Other Diseases 25:11 Fourth Dose: The Problem is Choice 35:00 Final Dose: The Next Pandemic #philosophy #vaccines #health
Wow. Never have I heard “‘Vote with your dollar’ means people with no dollars get no votes” summed up so succinctly. It’s an intuitive concept, and something I’m sure many people sort of just know, but that’s a really good one line description of the problem.
Then get more dollars. It's not hard.
Spot on Gabe, if only it was that simple for everyone to get those dollars.
@@thedarwinist672 SO TRUE!!!!!! just go to the BIG MONEY BANK and ask for CASH MONEY BABYYYYYY in COUNTRY OF RESIDENCE'S MONETARY DENOMINATION and you will be set to VOTE with your DOLLAR!!!!! that's how it works, it works for EVERYone, EVERYtwo and EVERYtree!!!!!
@@thedarwinist672 money doesn't grow on trees.
@@Vher_ don’t forget to plant your MONEY TREE *now*
At 17 minutes when you mentioned Merck I was like, I recognize that name... then you mentioned the arthritis drug that gave people heart attacks and I was like ohhh right the people that killed my grandma.
Oh my god, that is horrific
Your grandma was old and prone to heart attacks, you cant blame a medication for that 🤦♂️🤡
Yikes...Hope y'all are doing okay and that memories of her are helping in remembering her positively. (I obviously never met her, but based on your comment I am guessing you did enjoy your time with her.)
RIP I hope that you and your family have fond memories of her
Ohhhh... I'm so sorry for your loss!
Great video as always! I remember being a kid and my mom not giving me the HPV vaccine because it was so new. She was a nurse, and very well educated, but as Black folks, we be skeptical for reasons. Plus, I was 12. Jump to 26 and I went to the OBGYN to get the vaccine only to find out I had HPV. Thankfully, I got the other doses and I cleared it—but it stuck to me as a very traumatic moment that could have been avoided if I'd just gotten the vaccine.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 ok
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 are you tryina be like "if you were like me this would never have happened" or what
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 like i'm on the ace spectrum too but... no one asked? it sounds like you're implying that you're better than them. also, you need to get pap smears because you could still have cervical cancer.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 The correct term is allosexual. Please stop embarrassing me, another asexual.
@@nuclearcatbaby1131 You still need to get PAP smears on time, HPV is not the only problem that PAPS are used to detect.
Also, super weird flex?
As an autistic person in the U.S. I've unfortunately been conditioned to associate people not wanting a vaccine with ableism extending into eugenics. I've heard so much "Vaccines are bad because they turn you autistic (which is bad)" that it's baked into my brain to tie not wanting a vaccine to hating people like me to a deadly extent.
I've really been having to tease that specific antivax attitude apart from all the other concerns that people have been raising about the Covid vaccines because they just aren't the same. In particular there's another common vaccine concern in this country that hits close to home – the fear in communities of color that these vaccines are yet another chapter in the long history and ongoing present of the U.S. medically experimenting on POC.
Imagine the pointless harm it would do to lump folks like that in with eugenicist parents.
The complexities of this issue are a lesson I'm trying to learn, and I'm so glad you're doing the work to try to teach it to other people as well.
Did you not get one for any of the above reasons?
@@allisons6910 I'm fully vaccinated.
Is eugenics bad? Incest is basically illegal, incest prohibition is literally just a form of eugenics, being able to know that a child you're going to have will almost certainly die at a young age in pain mind you and that the option to abort would stop this from happening is eugenics. I'm sorry but you eugenics is generally a good thing so long as it's not mixed in with racism that's my personal opinion.
How ironic that parents of children with autism likely have it themselves… or made a baby with someone who did… or both! 😬
"Imagine living in a country where the rulers take money out of the healthcare system and give it to their friends"
i am watching this from russia and i am on the verge of tears
I'm sorry, friend :(
Same thing in South Africa unfortunately.
cries in brazilian
Well, shit! Can we be the rulers' friends then? Would they give money to us is we were all their friends? Do they need friends? They can have a few hundred million then!
I STAND with innocent people in Russia 🇷🇺
What I am really interested in is the empathy piece. I have a primary immune deficiency. I also have other factors that make Covid scary, but the primary immune deficiency makes vaccines not really work very well in me. I was told I could just isolate myself and not worry about what everyone else is doing. The problem is, if I want to isolate with a roof and food, I need an income. I haven’t had offers of mortgage payments or free food from the people who don’t want vaccines. So I have to go to work.
As it turns out, I was right to be worried as well. I had three jabs, knowing the efficacy is limited. I still got Covid a few weeks ago. I had to be placed on a ventilator, as the initial treatment with steroids was ineffective and cause some nasty side effects. I have been off the ventilator for a week. I still have coughing fits, and I still can’t use stairs without becoming breathless. I’m just really glad my boss at work has made accommodations for my limited ability, as aircraft maintenance is usually a fairly physical job.
I can’t even tell the people around me what happened though. If I say I got Covid, they will just look me dead in the eyes and say I’m proof the vaccine doesn’t work. I’m fairly certain the vaccine is the only reason I am still alive, and this all makes me sad
Hey, glad you made it through and shared your story with us. Hope you feel better soon.
@@timekeeper2538 Abbie outright says in the video, if you don't want to look up a paper, that while you can still be a vector if vaccinated, vaccinated people clear out the virus much faster than the unvaccinated. Thus, less time infectious and thus, decreased opportunity to infect others. There's a citation in the video at the point she makes the comment too if you do want to look it up for yourself.
Also, you have turned up in almost every comment thread I have opened, getting agro with people. What is your deal? Do you just like to fight behind the anonymity a basic google icon and random username gives you? If you want answers, chill out and engage in good faith. Most people here are happy to talk if you don't start by just accusing them of whatever takes your fancy.
@@timekeeper2538 I hope you might realize that your responses seem a bit odd, and perhaps a bit too accusatory to lead to a productive conversation here, especially since it seems you're already assuming myself and others are acting in bad faith. I must say, I'm not even sure what you're trying to assert, or from where you're drawing your assumptions. If you truly want to have a conversation with authentic responses, it might be easier for us to understand your position if you assert it directly, instead of posing questions in the role an interrogator. Hopefully you can respond in earnest and expand on what you believe and why. I am genuinely curious, although I can't guarantee I'll be able to respond in a timely manner since I have other responsibilities right now. Cheers.
@@timekeeper2538 You're diving into each comment section to cause arguments. Get a life.
@@timekeeper2538 no one is guaranteed to spread Covid if they have it. There is absolutely things people can do to not spread Covid even after unknowingly being infected, vaccinated or not. People just don’t live that way, generally. The lack of empathy is pretty clear though. Have a good day
I'm a cancer survivor. Personal stats: 1.5 months of radiation treatment, 6 months of chemo, 3 surgeries, 1 recurrance, and 4 years in and out of treatment. When I was going through treatment, I spent a lot of time in waiting rooms getting to know my fellow patients. I observed a phenomenon which I dubbed "suicide by cancer", but which I learned later is form a shock known by psychologists as "cognitive paralysis". The number of people who chose to not take treatment in spite of having completely treatable and survivable forms of cancer was heartbreaking. Cognitive paralysis happens when a situation is so terrifying that your brain simply can't accept that what is happening is real. You become incapable of forming a rational response to the situation. In most cases, simply doing nothing is form a comfort because it allows you to pretend that the "bad thing" isn't real. if you listen to most people who are voluntarily unvaccinated, you will notice one common thread: they never talk about the virus or it's symptoms or what a death from Covid looks like. Avoiding looking at the actual alternative to vaccination - as in getting seriously ill or dying from Covid - is something they are very strategic about doing. They always manage to divert the conversation away from the virus, itself. Just as the cancer patients who chose not to take treatment (and just go home and die) never talked about what kind of cancer they had or what form their death would take. Is your "choice" to not take the vaccine really a choice if you're in the grip of cognitive paralysis and just don't know it?
Thank you for sharing this experience. The phenomenon is not something I've heard of before, but it more concretely describes the understanding I have that the deflection is often about a critical level of fear.
THIS sounds very important and worth exploring more
Interesting point!
this is a good comment
This is so interesting. I’ve heard all of the arguments in the video and seen the debunkings over and over, so it’s hard not to be frustrated with the voluntarily unvaccinated, but this gives me a new perspective. Thanks for sharing it!
One interesting thing I remembered when you talked about systemic harm caused under the guise of public health was an anecdote my father once told me. While my family is white, my father works in the health care industry, and had a very interesting experience trying to find people for a drug trial that would primarily affect black people. Because of the long history of false medicine being given to black people not to help them, but to use them as vessels, it was very hard to convince parents to allow their dying children to participate in this potentially life saving drug trial. This wasn’t because the parents were bad people or blindly suspicious, but simply because trusting is hard for those who have a history of systemic abuse. While my father, a white man who had the expertise to understand the drug and trusted his colleagues to be truthful about what they were administering, could see the great harm that refusing treatment would cause, the marginalized and hurting families had trouble trusting the industry with the lives of their children in a trial of a drug that they didn’t know if they could trust. And a bunch of white people telling them over and over how great it was and to just trust them wasn’t going to address the core issue.
I’m autistic, and I was growing up during the first wave of anti-vacation rhetoric. I know it’s not all about “catching autism” any more but it’s really had to find empathy for people in a movement that got it’s start by demonising people like me.
Yeah… some of the stuff coming from that was basically, “I would rather my child die from this deadly vaccine preventable disease than to be autistic.”
I'm autistic and I don't believe medical procedures that require taking a degree of risk should be mandatory and and coercion that is undertaken to further these mandates is deeply immoral.
I feel you, I hope that at the very least none of your relatives are/were anti-vaxxers at that time. Take care of yourself!
I'm the eldest of two -- we are both autistic. However, I was diagnosed at 23, while my brother was diagnosed at around 4. I was fully vaccinated, but my parents fell into being antivax when my brother was diagnosed. They're not like that now (though they do seem very defensive about it to this day) but I find it funny that vaccinated or not, both me and my brother are autistic. Because duh
Yeah I agree, I usually just make jokes like ‘I’m about to get vaccinated, am I gonna get double autism? AUTISM SQUARED??’ but it is genuinely hard to engage with people who have opinions like that about autistic people.
the factual science facts of "Why was this vaccine ready so quickly" is interesting and not really surprising when you get to read it, SARS vaccines in parcticular and mRNA stuff in general was worked on for decades before COVID-19 hit, and the huge funding that came with it helped push forwards with already existing research, including mRNA experiments used to create a full on cure for HIV!
Agree. "It was really fast" is actually "this took 30-some-odd years" all told. And clinical trials for them had ten times the participants usual clinical trials have. But again, piling on evidence isn't working. (Not criticizing your comment, fwiw. I have Larry parents, and I started with evidence and that did very much nothing)
@@MeldaRavaniel oh of course, its just a little fact that gets swept aside easily even to people who accept the evidence.
Like.... they cured HIV, they created a cure for a horrid disease that has been weaponized for decades against LGBT people and poor countries, its beautiful.
I was a little surprised this wasn't given more focus as well tbh!
This, I was writing an article about the mortgage electronic registration system about 8 years ago, and kept running into articles about progress on a vaccine for another coronavirus called "MERS." Helpful information now, but supremely unhelpful at the time 😂
Whenever this is mentioned, I really can't help but mention that we went from pretty much biplanes to full on jets in the scope of 6 years. And all because the world got really, really, really motivated to spend a shit ton of money on getting us there... of course at that time, it very much was to kill other people... but still, if humanity gets motivated and is actually willing to put in the money, things can go so fast. Really all that is holding us back from living in a better world is the fact that some rich people want to get even richer... if only they would profit more out of preventing diseases rather than making diseases chronic, we'd be able to get rid of so many diseases... it really is quite a disgusting thing to think about...
My mom is old enough to remember a time before vaccinations were common. She contracted typhoid fever as a child and suffered permanent hearing damage as a result while her cousin contracted polio. Cousin survived with her mobility intact but developed epilepsy, possibly as a long term side effect. As soon as news broke that the Covid jab was available, she made me drop everything to help get her appointment. The vaccine skeptic absolutely baffle her. She views them as spoiled and entitled.
My grandma was a kid when the smallpox and polio vaccines became available. She has the same view towards folks her age as your mom does.
Here's the funny thing about polio, almost everybody who gets it just gets flu-like symptoms and either dies from it or gets better, the paralysis and loss of lung function and other sorts of chronic post-polio effects were not terribly common. It's all you hear about anymore with polio because no one is catching polio anymore. Eventually long covid patients with respiratory or other disabilities as a result of the disease are going to be all that's left, and we will go on to associate covid with a long-term chronic condition rather than the rapid onset killer plague that it actually was.
My grandma feels the same way. She was telling me about how horrible it was that you couldn't go into hospitals without hearing the iron lungs going and that that horror she felt towards it is not only why she gets vaccinated but that the lack of exposure to it for younger generations is why they don't always realize the good vaccines do. She's very upset that two of her three children (fortunately, the two that aren't my dad) refuse to get the vaccine
@@jacobgasson8016 I remember one horrible anecdote from someone in a doctor's office I guess a couple years before the pandemic.
This was a two-year-old, poor thing, and their mother was an anti-vaxxer, and hadn't gotten them the MMR shot. And they'd gotten measles.
And they'd had a bad go of it, but had recovered and was still alive; was just there for a check-up.
But this poor little kid, this toddler, was just sitting by themselves in a corner of the pædiatrician's waiting room, watching the other kids that were also waiting playing in the little play area there.
And it absolutely broke their heart, the person who worked there who was relating it said, because they obviously wanted to go and run around and poke into things and play with the toys and the other kids, and they didn't seem quite able to work out quite why they couldn't.
But everyone else could see why. It's because, due to an unfortunate complication of the measles that they had had, both their arms, and both their legs, had all had to be amputated.
So here was this poor little kid, who had barely even learned to walk, who now was basically a head and torso and that's all, completely unable to even go across the room to play with the other kids.
And why? Because their mother had believed a since-discredited "study" that the bloody Lancet never ought to have published in the first place (it wasn't even peer-reviewed!! And I don't know that I will ever forgive them for the damage they've caused by printing it regardless), and refused to get her child vaccinated with the MMR vaccine. Because she has been told that it could possibly harm her child, and she didn't believe the subsequent studies and statements that all said that, no, it was fine actually; and she hadn't known what the disease might do to get child if they didn't get it.
Sure, it might just be a fever and badly swollen throat and itchy spots everywhere for a few weeks and that's it.
Or it could make you sterile.
Or blind.
Or deaf.
Or, it ends up, it might damage the tissues of the extremities so badly that the only option is amputation.
Or, heck, it might just kill you outright.
We probably need to cover what these diseases that we can now prevent with vaccines actually do to you. History can be horrific sometimes. I know that. And I understand wanting to keep stuff age-appropriate. But I really, honestly think that sometimes, we need to give kids that information.
Because sometimes, as bad as some knowledge can be, sometimes not knowing can be worse.
Sigh.
My dad is in his 90's. He says that my daughter, his granddaughter, reminds him of his cousin he had when he was little. "A real little blondie, she was, like this one," he said to me.
She died when she was about five or so. Of diptheria. There wasn't any vaccines for it back then.
Please, guys, get yourselves and your kids vaccinated!! If you don't trust the governments, or the companies making it, then please do at least trust that their scientist peers who are reviewing their studies for any kind of errors, in process, assumptions, conclusions, biases, anything, are going to most likely have enough of the people doing those reviews who dislike the first bunch, or are spiteful towards them, or jealous of them or a position they got, or something, that they will gleefully pounce on anything not up to scratch in their study.
Believe me, if the results weren't valid, the peer review process will find it out.
Jesus christ, did you not see the video? Calling them entitled is exactly the type of language that Abby was trying to avoid
It's remarkable to see how polite this discourse is from across the pond here in America, where it's actively much, much more hostile. Here, it's much less "I would rather not hurt anybody, but it's my body," and much more, "I don't give a sh** if I hurt anybody, it's my body, and they're just going to have to deal with it."
"Imagine living in a country where the rulers take money out of the healthcare system and give it to their friends... I'm so glad I live in Britain, where that never happens." Absolutely priceless. ;-)
You're just writing words from the video, we all saw it, we all heard what she said
@@TheEvilCheesecake nothing is new under the sun, including this comment, including yours, including mine
@@TheEvilCheesecake And they found it an amazing bit? what went wrong in your brain here? aren't people allowed to praise or just share their opinions? Really going against the whole point of the video you're commenting under. Realitycheckyourself next time please
@@TheEvilCheesecake Oh yeah, that's called a quote. People have done it through the history of civilization and the written word to highlight something someone else said. Cool, right? 😂
@@Alic4444 Speaking of quotes, I love your response, mind if I quote you on that the next time I see a dumb comment like @RealityCheckIns just posted?
I've worked in the pharmaceutical industry for close to 20 years now, so when the Covid-19 vaccines were available in my area, I got my jabs asap. Even I had some qualms about the efficacy given the shortened timelines, but I never worried about the safety of the vaccines because... well, vaccines are an extremely safe category of medicine. It was very difficult for me to see things from the point of view of someone without much experience in medical science, and this video did a good job of helping me empathize with people who are vaccine hesitant.
Given how shady our governments and corporations are, it's understandable if one might be a bit wary of a hastily developed and government-endorsed medicine. It makes me very sad to see how our governments have squandered the public's trust over the past decades so that now, when a trusting relationship between the two is most needed, it's entirely absent for a large number of us. This is the consequence for fucking over the people you are entrusted to represent.
One of the few reasonable and rational comments here. There are many issues here, but Trust is the biggest issue, there have been people who lived and died over simple trust issues like military evacuations because they didn't believe what an officer said, or was skeptical and vice versa.
The hyperbole of information and misinformation at that just makes this alot worse, and then algorithms that encircle people and their information only make it worse. But well i'll remain hopeful for the common man~.
as a researcher who only worked on studies that already have an allocated budget, its absolutely mind bending how a fully fleshed out study can be completed in like 3 months. Even with bureaucracy getting in the middle and slowing things down. its amazing how ape shit scientists go when they already have a budget to work with, hecking brilliant.
We know the funding won't last. Work fast or loose all when the situation is presented is the work ethic.
There seemed to be something different about this video that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Perhaps the Gray Zone's article "Leaked files expose Syria psyops veteran astroturfing BreadTube star to counter Covid restriction critics" spotlight's what that is. Might also explain why this study could be done so quickly.
"The CIA owns everyone of any significance in the major media."
-- attributed to CIA Director William Colby
While I have my doubts as to whether Colby actually said it, I'm pretty sure it was a reasonably accurate claim at the time and that it now includes the so called alternative media.
Yeah they were definitely completed as fuck, all of them.
I used to be a self-help Steve type. Did football, cross country running, athletics even represented my school a few times.
Then a few years ago I had gotten whooping cough so badly that I had scarring in my lungs. I didn't go to hospital because I thought I could just fight it off (I did without medicine but at the cost of my lungs). Me bring stoic was just in reality really bad for me in the end
Pertussis? That’s pretty rare in adults. Hope you got your tdap after that and hope you’re recovering well. Lung scarring is no joke.
That blows, I'm sorry. Thank you for sharing that.
@@johnwrath3612 due to all the people not getting vaccinated, rates are skyrocketing. Still low overall of course.
Similar thing happened to me many years ago. I was REALLY sick with high fever, so sick I didn't have the energy to go and see a doctor, I waited a couple of days until I felt a little bit better....
When I got there the doctor was kind of chocked when he looked at me and after taking the tests, he insisted that I took anti-biotics against the specific germ that had infested me. (In my country, doctors try to limit prescriptions of anti-biotics.)
My answer: But, I already feel a little bit better, sooo....
His answer: Take the anti-biotics!
Reluctanty I did. Still, In the back of my mind I was still thinking "this germ CAN in some cases be defeated by healthy people"..... 😂
I hope you mean "soccer", because those other footballs...not so helpful
It's been great to collaborate on this, Abi! Thank you for your impartial and empathetic approach. We are stoked about this video 🙌
How does it feel to be confused with the Royal Society and/or the Royal Family by the people who assume you're royal plants or something?
Royalists! (Kidding, plz keep doing what you’re doing)
2 shills, now it all makes complete sense.
@@doublenegation7870 what a top-tier response
/s
@@doublenegation7870 Ah yes, unpaid volunteers working with an independent charity -- truly a classic grift lmao. You absolute loon.
As the child of a lifelong antivaxxer, growing up I have only ever seen strawmen antivax arguments online and it can make it hard for someone who is fed mistruths about vaccines and the medical industry as they grow to determine what reality is. I really appreciate how you have made their arguments feel more tangible because in real life, most of them are understandable in some way even if they're wrong. I never really doubted medical advice but it can be hard to find solid reasoning when people online argue against opinions that are uncommon and overblown. My whole life I have needed this video, to feel seen and to humanise my parent, thank you.
I absolutely empathise, having an antivax parent is such a weird and saddening experience. I know what it's like to want to understand but just being unable to. I needed this video a huge amount too.
as a minor whose parents tried to deny me the vaccine and refuse to get vaccinated, i must admit i had very little understanding for people who willfully choose not to get vaccinated. thank you for opening my eyes to the nuanced mess of a reality that drove a lot of people to make that choice.
@@CynicalBastard "contracting CV with major symptoms" that's not really the only concern superspreader.
Also, got any backup on the supposed miocarditis?
@@Guimhj Studies have shown a slightly increased risk from getting the vaccine - and a massively increased risk if you get Covid.
And of course he has no idea what it is or how serious it is...
@@CynicalBastard This is mathematically incorrect logic. The risk of myocarditis from the vaccine is much smaller than the risk from getting COVID. Given the infection rate of COVID being very high among the unvaccinated with more recent strains, that means that it is mathematically the case that getting vaccinated is a better way of protecting a child from myocarditis than leaving them unvaccinated. Their parents may well have the best of intentions, but they are acting in a way that does not serve those intentions, quite possibly (likely even) unintentionally.
@@CynicalBastard There is risk in anything, but that doesn't change the fact that there is no mathematical or rational reason to believe you are protecting a child from myocarditis by not vaccinating them. To the contrary, whether it is your intention or not, you are endangering them.
@@CynicalBastard No, you didn't show any reasons. You said a number of false things that can be obviously demonstrated to be false, as I already have. Your argument is not founded in logic, it is founded in a logical fallacy.
i appreciate that this isn't just an all-out attack or dunk on antivax, and is an actual attempt to understand ppl's feelings and empathize.
@@LordRykard9376 i take it you didnt watch the full video. vaccines work. including the covid vax. to say otherwise is illogical and does ignore the science.
She’s giving them a massive benefit of the doubt though. The truth is most antivaxxers are grifters or really, really stupid.
@@thelouster5815 true though
welcome to the channel!
Yeah, since they are honestly just scared. And yelling at a scared person isn't gonna help.
I AM a statistician and I really appreciate the section where you laid out the methodology and (most importantly) limitations!
@@raythink This is Biden's America... /s
@@raythink Banning kissing would be like banning trains because sometimes they kill people, or banning cherries because sometimes people choke on the stones.
Anything looks bad if you only weigh up the harms, and not take into account the whole picture.
Gotta love statistics. Everything "COVID-related" is related to Sars-Cov-2 in the exact same sense that 100% of sunrises are rosster´s-crow-related.
One minor critique. We did not kinda defeat tuberculosis. It is still rampaging through the world ( last global TB report declared it the second most difficult respiratory infection after SARS COV 2). Especially since poorer areas of the world are massively higher effected and TB is able two switch between latent and active stages it is a massive overstatement to say that we kinda have a handle on it
She did actually say that we kinda .... but not really.
And drug-resistant TB is becoming more common.
Smallpox has been eradicated and would've been a better example, though. But yes, sadly there was no global effort to eradicate TB, like there was with smallpox, and it passes between different species including cattle (so the med-resistant tb strains are more common than the measles resistant ones could've ever gotten) so even a global effort would be more difficult.
And sadly, as was pointed out, the pharmaceutical companies follow financial and not health-related guidelines
@@tadferd4340 I saw predictions, a long time ago, for a possible outbreak of, to skip the technical terms, very aggressive TB that isn't bothered by any antibiotics, and it looked like the back-story for Left 4 Dead. You know, "Two weeks after first infection"
Yes, just ask John Green about it.
It endlessly frustrated me early on in the pandemic that so many decisions were being made only from the medical side and basically no attention was given to the social sciences. Psychologists, sociologists, etc have been studying things like vaccine hesitancy, trust in science, and related reasons for decades. Many of the things your subjects talked about have been said before and no one seemed to think to re-check that literature. I'm so glad to see more of a qualitative approach being used, it provides a lot of detail that is often missed in general surveys.
In the US, we actually had a pandemic response plan. It was developed under George H. W. Bush. It understood all this research and made very clear recommendations that were designed to minimize these issues. Trump ignored it completely for perceived personal political gain, and hung public health officials out to dry in a way that directly exacerbated these issues.
@@karliebellatrixyoung6359 yeah, it's extremely frustrating to hear things said by people like the OP. Of course exhaustive research has been done about this. Unfortunately the research could not adding for waters poisoned so severely by Trump.
These things were absolutely tried. Everything that can be done to provide people with information and sympathy was done. And is done on a daily basis.
These people aren't just called stupid on the face of it. They are given every opportunity to actually critically evaluate the readily available evidence and make a personal choice to completely ignore all of it.
My mom is an ICU nurse and many members of her family are in medicine. She explained to me how vaccines work when I was a child, so I had no compunction about receiving the covid vaccine (especially once I realized the only reason it was "fast" was because they didn't have to wait years on end to re-secure funding like they do for most vaccines) because I already understood why they were effective. The last few years have taught me never to take my medical literacy for granted. So many people don't have access to education about their bodies and about medicine. All they know is that institutions have historically not had the public's best interest in mind. No wonder they're hesitant.
"where trans women can buy viagra and they say 'is this for your boyfriend' and you say 'ya know what, lets go with yes'" i actually died in laughter
I'm gonna comment being only 2 mins in: "they're not talked to .." is not something I can agree with.
From my pov: I've tried talking and understanding people like that who are in my life. When I respectfully raise doubts or point out contradictions, I'm called "naive", "brainwashed" or "sheep" etc. While I haven't found any common ground yet, I keep trying.
Knowing that all hope is lost if I fully alienate them, I don't let off on them all the anger and frustration and ridicule and insults that come to mind when I hear their conspiracy bs. Instead, I save all this and vent it on antivaxxers that I meet online.
My impression was that most people do it like that, and that antixaxxers etc. are listened to irl - it's just that they misconstrue 'people disagreeing with them' as 'poeple not listening to them', as a kind of denial / ego defense.
This is true, this video is very much giving them the benefit of the doubt which I do think is important because it will get through to people better.
watch the entire 42 minute video before rushing to comment.
@@suoutubez19 I did, but my opinion still stands .. I'm not sure what you're getting at. I commented because I didn't wanna forget commenting.
Thats a great stance to have with your friends. Keeping them close is for sure better. I think theres a good way for you to approach them : if they think youre a sheep, then roll with it. Use the socratic method - at every step and every comment, ask them "why" or "how" until you get to the end of their reasoning - dont interrupt or contradict it. This shows 1. that youre open to their ideas and a proper discussion, and 2. it places them in a higher regards as an educator, its respectful. Google their topics of interests, not yours. Think of them as knowledgeable in things you arent. Ask who they think is an authority on the questions. Read or watch the opinion of the news your friends read - only then will you be in a position to counter and go on the offensive, after you've taken the time to be within their personal news cycle.
That's the big thing the video misses: It empathizes with the unvaccinated as people who simply don't understand, when the reality is they don't want to understand.
I started out as kind of an anti-vaxxer. I thought like some of your study subjects, and I wanted to wait it out to see if people who got it started dropping dead or something. What changed my mind and made me schedule my shot the next day was turning on my local news and seeing them say that some 90% of all peoples hospitalized with covid in my general area were unvaccinated, and the realization that if I got it or passed it to my family, they or myself probably wouldn't survive it.
It sounds like bringing you out of your comfort zone, was the moment required for your change. Maybe looking up local hospital stats like those and sharing them could be a strong way to convince people to get vaccinated.
Skepticism in effectiveness and distrust in public health are strong defenses, but it sounds like they can be deterred by proximity to the issue as those arguments both tend to be vague and detached from our daily lives. Thanks for your comment, its a good one.
If you're young and healthy, your risk of death and hospitalisation is still very low regardless of the vaccine. For example "An unvaccinated young person is 15x more likely to be hospitalised". Your real risk goes from 1.5 per 100,000 down to 0.1 per 100,000, a large relative decline but miscule absolute change.
Good on you.
We all start off ignorant. A real mark of maturity is having the ability to recognize the evidence and be willing to change your mind when it's justified. Thank you so much for being open minded and for coming on board.
I’m really glad that motivated you, the hospitalization rate, I mean. I work in a hospital and people here who still won’t get the shots just tell me I (or the news) am lying about the numbers. 🤷🏼♀️
It is VERY different here in the US. I find your subjects fascinating. Here in my village in upstate NY, the pastor of one of the churches (which now appears to be closed) heckled his members to not be vaccinated or to mask, he ended up dying, and so did some other people as a result. It is a political and religious issue here. I never heard that type of thoughtful analysis from the vax refusers here and I did hear every trope you said you don't hear there. We are less siblings than most people think, I suspect, Britain's child grew up to be... different.
When you started talking about people being responsible for their own well-being, I was immediately reminded of my trip to the psychiatric hospital.
I'm an American and I had a suicide attempt on Valentine's Day of this year. I called 911 myself so I could get help, but I was petitioned by the police and taken to a hospital so that I could be admitted. I didn't have an option to refuse treatment because I was suicidal and therefore considered unable to make good decisions about what was best for me and if I did "refuse", I would simply be labeled as uncooperative and would be forced to stay there for even longer.
I didn't learn anything useful the time that I spent there. At no point was I seen as a person. I was unable to wear a bra the entire time I was there because I might strangle myself with the straps. My family sent me some of my clothes, a blanket, a stuffed animal, a spiral sketchbook and some pens. All of it was confiscated, their reasoning being, I could "bring serious injury" to myself and that they were "looking out for my safety." I was put on an anti-depressant back in 2019 that made me more suicidal while I was on it and I asked my psychiatrist if I could stop taking it. When I was admitted to the psychiatric hospital, I was immediately put back on that anti-depressant now with the added bonus of them twisting the narrative into, "you were off your medications and that's why you called 911."
Most people that go to a psychiatric hospital are labeled simply as "deeply unwell" and to be avoided by everyone that talks to them because "they need help." Well, I did what I was supposed to: I called 911--I got "help." But nothing really came of it.
I can confirm that mental health care in the US is sporadically available, generally mediocre at best, and dangerous at worst. Frankly, it is the 2 ton elephant in the room with any discussion of human rights, medical care, or discrimination, or poverty/homelessness. IMHO telemedicine hasn't made this better because psychiatry is supposed to be anchored in the science of medicine, in understanding your patients physical condition, as well as their mental health issues (not that many of them follow that or the oath to do no harm).
If you're a mental health care provider in N. Central CA, Bay area, or Capitol Corridor, I challenge you to show me different. I have Medi-Cal, and have never had access to a fully competent psychiatrist, haven't been able to get treatment for my ADHD, and have had trouble getting my PTSD taken seriously. And, I haven't dared in-patient, verifiable evidence of worthlessness and/or detrimental outcome.
Adding my rant to yours. Stay strong. We need to support each other and fight for our rights.💜✊
I feel for you. I'm not currently suicidal but I've definitely had those times in my life where it was inescapable. I almost checked myself in for that and other things but was terrified of this exact thing. Crisis management for mental issues is a joke. I'm lucky I'm on the right meds. I sincerely hope your situation improves soon. I know this is obvious but you might want to try a hotline. Sometimes they're meh but sometimes they're a perfect distraction during key moments of high tension.
I could see how most of those things could be used to attempt suicide and why it would be good not to give them to someone who is suicidal unless supervised, but at the same time that feels like a dehumanizing experience that would just make the root causes worse.
@@NightWing1800 Honestly, the most dangerous thing they had was the antidepressants. Certain antidepressants can lead to serotonin syndrome, and I know several people who have attempted or committed suicide through that.
I’m so sorry for the abuse you suffered.
These horrible systems encourage people to not be seen as people, but as checklists.
There’s the “take away things they could hurt themselves with” box- weighing actual risk with the harm that can be done by someone not having those things “takes too long”, and just gets in the way of the box being checked.
Then there’s the “get them medicated” box- asking someone about their history with drugs to determine if some should be avoided “takes too long”, and just gets in the way of the box being checked.
It’s the disease of carceral logic being spread farther and farther. A human being is not a human being, they are a number, to be moved around and managed like an entry in a database. It’s the dehumanizing cost of efficiency in the context of control.
11:09 my mom is a doctor, she talks about this all of the time. It's especially bad here in the US. Want to make a physician mad? Just mention insulin testing strips being marked up 100x the production cost just because pharmaceutical companies can. It's honestly infuriating how medicine that's so cheap to make and people rely on to live can be so heavily abused by rich people in power and it's perfectly legal. There is a desperate need to regulate the price setting of medicine.
That is purely on USAs fucked up healthcare system. You get the same strips and medicines at a fraction of the price in EU countries even if said medicine isn't subsidized by the government, and not because US patients pay for the price instead of us (which is a commonly stressed misconception). Companies will simply make you pay for something as much as you are willing to, and if the government is not there to negotiate on your behalf (with all customers in their bag), then something you cannot allow not to buy will have an extremely high price tag.
Who would have thought that a massively demand inelastic market would be prone to market failure?
Reminds me of Senator Joe Manchin and his daughter. He made his fortune from the ultra-polluting coal industry and she made her fortune by price gouging on Epi-Pens. When she was CEO of Mylan she made a bunch of shady backroom deals to get a monopoly on epinephrine injectors and then jacked the price up 500%.
“Chose not to get vaccinated, then died”. That statement genuinely hurt. My aunt got covid the day before she was due to get her vaccine in January of last year. She passed away on February 21st last year and it’s been the most painful experience for myself and my family. She was so dedicated to her career in a local mental well-being service and was also extremely dedicated to supporting her family. If she had the vaccine a week earlier then she would probably still be here and our family wouldn’t be in agonising pain every day from our loss.
She was absolutely incredible. Always the life of the family and the best company. She actually signed up for a trial while she was in the hospital before she passed away. She believed that it would be worth it if it saved the life of others. This may have been the reason she passed. This has broken our hearts, but knowing that she went through this trial to save others is incredible. I hope that people who sacrificed their lives for covid trials eventually get the recognition that they deserve! For their families too.
So sorry for your loss- sounds like a special lady indeed, and I do hope someday she and others who participated in trials will be honored.
Dad passes a moth before vaccines were available for seniors here in Georgia USA. It is quite sad he was looking forward to it and had been so careful. Ty for your story and let’s keep trying to honor our loved ones memories. My sympathies your way.
My husbands great aunt died the day after her first dose. It was not the vaccine (she was 96, just had a feeding tube replaced and was in hospital following a stroke). It was heartbreaking. I absolutely understand how the wrong words in the wrong way can hurt. This is not what Abigail meant though
@@claireleblanc5471 I did think that maybe I misinterpreted it, as I know she’s frickin awesome and wouldn’t want to hurt anyone. I think maybe she didn’t know how we could have perceived it? I guess it’s a sensitive topic.
@@shellmartin2151 Firstly, I'm sorry for your loss. Secondly, I think the operative word there is "chose" -- as in people who otherwise could get the vaccine but didn't want to for whatever reason. And it's true that a lot of unvaccinated people are the ones catching and experiencing complications of covid. I'm pretty certain Abi wasn't talking about people who didn't get the vaccine and then died who weren't eligible for it, were unable to get it, had no access to it, etc., but people who had ample opportunity and refused
I always assumed the shaming, repeating evidence, etc. was not designed to convince the unvaccinated, but to convince the ALREADY vaccinated that they did the right thing. The consumer of media is likely vaccinated, and people like to hear that they are better and smarter than other people.
For me it's not about reassuring myself, it's about venting frustrations. I know not taking the vaccine endangers everybody and it does feel selfish not to take it if you can because of that. This is frustrating, and hearing other ppl frustrated is cathartic
@@trollololol4601 How is not taking the vax endangering everyone else?
If the vax works, then the vaxxed are protected.
If the vax doesn't work, then taking the vax means no benefit conferred on anyone, and therefor no additional danger to anyone.
@@trollololol4601 wrong, Pfizer have since stated there was no proof from the trials that the vaccine prevented transmission, so not taking it didn't endanger others any more than having it, in fact not taking it and not being aloud to go to things would be safer lol
When I call anti-vaxers stupid and wrong and dumb and uneducated, I'm under no illusions I'll "change their mind". I don't want to change their mind. I don't care. They're wrong, and stupid and dumb and if they feel embarrassed or shamed or like I'm judging them GOOD. They are putting immuno-comprimised people in danger, me in danger, my family in danger and I don't have room to empathise with selfish destructive morons who care more about being morally consistent than mitigating the harm they cause to the rest of us.
When I shame them, I want them to feel shame. They don't care about my feelings, my wellbeing or my health and their choices prove that. I don't have to care about theirs.
@@trollololol4601 One of the main reasons I got vaccinated was bc I didn't want to give the virus to someone else. I was disappointed to learn later that I was misled and that the mRNA vaccine wasn't even tested for transmission and that vaccinated people could still spread the virus, despite much media having told me otherwise
I feel like you do the best job of embodying the ‘be kind to people and ruthless with systems’ approach. Thanks for another great video!
I'm a pharmacist in my professional life, and this was actually a really wonderful video. It's given me some really great pointers on how to approach people who come to me with questions who are skeptical about the vaccine and don't want it. Pharmacists are the central professionals around vaccines, as we provide the vast majority of people with them in the community, so having this information is incredibly helpful. Thank you very much for posting this and I'm going to share it with my colleagues for sure.
Also, wonderful video production as always!
I think Pharmacists are one of the few community institutions that people still trust, at least here in the US. Sadly, that power has been withered away by the dearth of independent community pharmacies which can build those types of trusting relationships with patients, and yet every RPh I've ever known truly does their best, and most often knows more than MDs, having had boatloads of study in organic chemistry, pharmokinetics, etc. Even having worked for a time in mail-order pharmacy, I was always impressed with the absolute commitment and focus by the Pharmacists on patient safety and care. I wish more of the public had this insight.
@@Jasper_the_Cat oh, thank you! that was a really kind reply! pharmacists are the only “free” providers left in america, so yes that can be true. however, pharma is a complicated world here, so not always. but that was a wonderful response, thank you again.
Thank you for consistently having the captions in place on these. It's really helpful for me. I also really enjoy the description of the music between sections and in the intro and conclusion.
I'm deaf, so I always watched with closed captions, and wonder how many people miss out on the nice jokes over the music.
lol@ "where is she going with this"
I don't think people realise how harmful the debate around vaccines has been and what an effect it has had on peoples lives. Here's an example from my own life.
My girlfriend has gotten vaccinated this year in march. Sadly she suffers from severe side effects since then. Interestingly enough it hasn't been her sickness that has been the most difficult for her, but rather the way society deals with it. Before her vaccination I though, well if anything happens I will get the medical care I need and it will be fine. However in her case, she had to go through a dozen doctors, most of them unable, some of them unwilling to help, saying there are no side effects and that she's just imagining being sick.
Every person she talks to about it tries to talk down her experience out of fear of being identified with an antivaxxer movement. A circumstance the media is responsible for, wich leads to thousands of people not being taken seriously and given medical care they desperately need.
Part of the issue with those who've had adverse effects is that it appears to be mostly the antivaxxers who claim they know several people who've died or had severe effects, where as the majority of people who've gotten the vaccine don't know anyone who's had severe adverse effects. It's hard to take seriously
This is actually the very core of the so called “anti vax” movement. There are of course fringe extremism’s as there is with any movement but MOST of us either suffered an injury, or our kid suffered an injury. And after injury, you become largely gaslit, pushed out of healthcare, and left to figure it out on your own. So that’s what a lot of us did. We had to figure it out. And when we started digging, we started realizing that the science, and the history propping vaccines up on this pedestal, isn’t as pristine and up front as we were told.
We learned injury and serious side affects and even death aren’t NEARLY as rare as we’re told.
And as the vaccine schedule continues to grow- our only real goal is to secure the right of the people to make their own informed decisions.
I always found that the irony of the “protect those that can’t get vaccinated” arguments hilarious. On one hand they say we must protect those that can’t get vaxxed. All while also refusing to acknowledge the injured that should not get vaxxed. They end up mandating the very people they claim they’re protecting.
I am really sorry about what your girlfriend is going through. If there is any way we can help support her let me know.
My best friend died 3 days after having received the vaccine.
Vaccine injury never gets taken seriously
"Vote with your dollars only means that people with no dollars get no votes," literally preach, queen
And people with lots of dollars get lots of votes.
Yet through existing , you are voting too. Contribute your verse to the play.( Leaves ot Grass)
@@PitLord777 The dollar was just a metaphor for the rich or wealthy. Dont take it literally. She meant the poor, dummy. Most of us are. By the way, the original liberalism (Locke...) was meant only for the upperclass who own land, ....
& not for the poor who were the majority of the people of course.
Even "democracy" back then was meant for "the master class" which was the white owners & rich.....
Even citizenship was denied to the poor first as well as to women; colored people....
@@trojanhorse860
I never took it literally.
'Voting with your dollars' not only means poor people can't vote, but the rich and wealthy have more voting power than the middle classes.
@@PitLord777 Ok then, sorry. Have a nice day. Thanks. Cheers.
When I first read Isaac Asimov's "Foundation", I found it unbelievable that a culture would degenerate from scientific literacy to superstition in just a few years. Then I lived through the covid pandemic. Turns out Asimov was a better judge of human nature than I was.
Not to be dark, but I don't think anything changed. We were like this before and after covid. Everything was primed for this to go wrong in exactly the ways it has gone wrong.
@@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice That's what Temmosus meant by human nature. Covid just shined a spotlight on it.
I feel the same way. The way science has gone from meaning scientific processes (hypothesis, evidence, theory) to whatever the government says is acceptable that week has been very sobering.
@@Smok3yR1der hahaha, ok buddy.
@@tony6795 as if to prove my point
So, I've actually "convinced" a person to get vaccinated. And her particular case was an interesting commentary on trust. She's an employee working the register at the cafeteria of my university. She first saw me when I started my Bachelor's in biomeeical sciences in 2009. And every since, she's regularly seen me come pay for my lunch during my masters, PhD, etc... Once or twice, I forgot my wallet and she let me come pay later, but beyond that I don't know her name, and she doesn't know mine.
So here's the interaction that convinced her: She was serving coffees at a science comm conference I was attending on campus. She asked what the conference was about, I told her. And than she whispered: "Say, what do you think about this vaccine thing? Do you think I should get it." I replied with "Well I've chosen to get it, and from the studies I read, it seems to be really safe." (Not a lie, I did actually read the studies published by Moderna and Pfiser). She: "But you know, I have this autoimmune disease, so it means that my body already makes many antibodies, so I think that might be enough to protect me. And then I told her I also have an autoimmune disorder (also true) and explained to her that the antibodies that attack her body would not be able to attack the virus, because each antibody is very very specialised. She did not realise that antibodies are not all identical, and genuinely thought her disease protected her. We talked a bit about our disaeses, forgetting vaccine talk for a while. After that exchange, she asked If I thought she should get a vaccine. And I replied with "I think that would probably be a good idea, so that you can be protected." And she said she was going to make an appointment.
She's an immigrant worker who still most likely hangs out in Portuguese speaking community outside of work. Our government, does not communicate in languages other than our official languages, so she had not received much easy and kind communications form authorities. I was just the right person, at the right time, with the right level of authority (she had seen me go through my years of study) and the right level of relatability (similar diseases). I think we overestimate the number of people who are dead set on not getting vaccinated. Many unvaccinated people just need to be talked to with kindness by the right person. Primary care physicians are likely incredibly important for this task.
As an educated person with an autoimmune disease, you should also know that there is a newly discovered type of autoimmunity that’s caused by adjuvants. The suffering women are reporting worldwide about their “breast implant illness” (including me) is the same suffering many people worldwide are reporting from vaccines that contain aluminum (unfortunately almost all of them). Aluminum and silicone among others are materials that permanently stimulate the immune system — mostly in the wrong way, even when there is nothing to fight. When there is something to fight though, the body will create antibodies even more efficiently than a healthy body — unless the person with autoimmunity is taking medication against it. It’s been proven that people can create their own immunity to this virus (that’s not the case for all pathogens though). If a person has untreated autoimmune condition (usually a painful life) this person will create immunity to practically anything in “supersonic” speed and efficiency. I assume you and the Portuguese woman you mention are getting treatment (because it seems like you have an actual diagnose, to which there is a real treatment). So you gave really good advice. Now, as someone suffering from an yet-untreatable autoimmune condition caused by an adjuvant (which thank God can be removed, and thank God that I will be able to afford it soon), I understand how it feels to not have our pains go unrecognized and being gaslit into thinking they're “conspiracy theories” against the beauty/cosmetic surgery industry (silicone implants) or big pharma (vaccines with aluminum). Just like autoimmunity caused by the adjuvants in vaccines (mainly aluminum), my condition is debilitating. But unlike those who suffer from vaccines adjuvants, I can remove the adjuvant causing me all these, and the problem will hopefully go away (like it has for millions of women already who report on the internet how they got their health back by removing adjuvants). Aluminum from vaccine gets stuck in the brains, arms muscle and many other areas that can’t be removed. They are also not getting treatment nor recognition and are being gaslit by doctors (many of which are nothing more than big pharma's “influencers”). Breast implant illness just like any other adjuvant induced autoimmunity is REAL. Vaccines are incredibly dangerous, and nobody seems to question that they're the only drug that is given like “one size fits all”. That’s never the case for any drug. How do we accept that for vaccines? Dosage, formulation, frequency of doses should be calculated for each specific individual. Not everyone need the stimulation aluminum gives. Old people, immuncompromised people, people treating autoimmunity certainly do. Young healthy adults or people with untreated autoimmune conditions don’t. Even though we could all benefit from the mRNA effect, it’s not worth it sometimes because of the risks of adjuvants. My health deteriorated severely in the 4 months post vaccination, all autoimmunity symptoms got worse (there was no nocebo effect, since I believed at the time mRNA vaccines had no adjuvants in them, as I read from a reputable source, which turned out to be a lie). Remember we don’t have access to the entire truth, greedy companies or entire industries wouldn’t benefit from that. Please research about why Pfizer doesn’t want to sell their vaccine (nor the formulation) to poorer countries. Research about how much profit they're making from selling all they can sell to rich countries, asking for insane prices per dose, claiming that people in rich countries need to keep getting more and more doses. Milking all they can before separating anything more than 2% of the doses for poorer countries. Let's not forget what big pharma really is, and how Pfizer was the least trusted company in the least trusted industry until a couple of years ago. Remember. And remember the forgotten people being labeled horrible names while all they're doing is surviving from adjuvant induced autoimmunity and trying to be taking seriously. Now the reason I’m commenting this here is you can’t talk about autoimmunity and vaccines without remembering lives that were ruined by adjuvants.
o.o
I think it may also have to do with the fact that you have treated her as an another intellectually able person (we tend to say that anivaxxer are stupid), have listened to her concerns with empathy, and have a shared experience (your autoimmune disease) that may have helped her to relate to you.
@@luannafsantos I haven’t personally done much reading on the potential effects of adjuvants on autoimmune conditions, but I think you make some interesting points here. I would definitely agree with the idea you mentioned about personalised/precision medicine, where treatment takes individual differences into account when deciding to take a certain drug or treatment (i.e. not taking the 1-size-fits-all approach). I was actually talking to my lecturer about this today - about why medicine hasn’t integrated all of these new techniques for personalised medicine into mainstream healthcare + he said that the methods/materials they use to eg. find someone’s genetic profile (one factor that might affect how you eg react to a drug) are often expensive bc they’re intellectual property, and so our access, as the general public, to avoiding bad side effects that are specific to the individual is a lot lower than eg someone with a LOT of money :/
@MichiruEll
Maybe with your studies and expertise you can explain to another person who's refrained from taking this novel mRNA 'vaccine'.
How forming an immune response to the spike protein surrounding the virus. Protects one from the actual virus?
Im not medically trained so this is all a bit confusing for me...
I waited an embarrassing amount of time to get the vaccine TBH. I have (had?) a really severe fear of needles that really made it hard for me to buck up the courage to go down to Walgreens and just get it done. I was only able to do it after my best friend had a stern word with me about it after I showed up unvaccinated to her grandfather's birthday and someone caught COVID.
For the record, if needles also scare you a lot, here's something I learned when getting my first COVID shot: breathe slowly (in for 5 seconds, out for 7), don't look, and play a game on your phone. It'll help you control your reaction while you're getting your shot/your bloodwork done, and while your nerves might still be jangled afterwards, you should be able to avoid a panic attack. Hope this helps, stay safe out there.
After what you’ve learned about how having a vaccine for this respiratory virus ( such as the flu, never wiped out ) how do you feel about that the difference between vaxed and Unvaxed ability to spread the virus is now deemed the same. Oh and Justin Bieber and wife ?
It's not a fear of needles. It's a hatred towards authority thinking they can own my body. I have the right to die as I will. If you think I'm so contagious... you go get vaxxed, you stay 5 feet away. Don't try and get me to bow and kiss the ring of power. I'd rather be dead
I was vaccine hesitant. For a long time, at first it was the seemingly rushed vax. And the mixed messaging coming from officials didn't help much. Then it was some dubious info from characters telling me not to trust established scientists, who, when I actually 'did my own research' turned out to be pretty untrustworthy themselves. For an embarrassingly long time after, it was spite at the root of it, that kept me going so long. Spite that people who had been so arrogant, judgemental and dismissive to all my concerns had been right. I'm single jabbed now, with my next dose coming up shortly. We would probably disagree on a lot, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for this. Going against the grain of what your audience might want and expect form you. To defend to common humanity of people who've been a tad foolish, is a truly noble act. Cheers
As someone who is very pro-vax I'm sorry you had to go through that, and apologize on their behalf, for whatever that's worth. I'm glad to hear that you eventually came around despite it all.
Hey, as someone that has a bigger chance of dying from this shitty disease, thanks for being the bigger person, and getting your shot.
What actually changed your mind in the end?
That's awesome! I'm so glad you liked it!
I mean what’s missing from this conversation is that almost all of the questions vaccine hesitant or antivax people have had have been answered very quickly. The data on vaccine effectiveness has been accessible from day one. The data and the knowledge on how to interpret it is all publicly available. It takes like… five seconds to Google “was the vaccine rushed?” and read just one of the hundreds of thousands of articles on the subject. Mixed messaging from officials is fixed by… reading the studies. All of this information has always been there.
While I have a lot of empathy for your situation, it’s not correct to call vaccine hesitant or antivax folks “people who’ve been a tad foolish”. That’s not what happened here. What happened was willful ignorance on a subject where having the wrong opinion endangers lives. The information and the facts and the answers to the questions have been out there for years now, but vaccine hesitant and antivax people either have not done the work to look at it, or have avoided engaging with it on purpose.
I’m not attaching any kind of moral judgement to this, like I don’t think that’s useful. I think most of this is due to systemic issues and consuming the wrong set of media, along with the fear of being wrong. But that doesn’t mean that every vaccine hesitant or antivax person gets off scott-free and doesn’t have additional work to do. Ultimately something happened to where they did not interpret the data correctly and, because of that, they endangered people’s lives. People who were vaccine hesitant need to do some serious self-analysis to figure out why that was the case and what they can do to prevent stuff like that from happening again.
The bit about trust is really interesting.
I'm gonna simplify the events a lot, but in France, we've had a special case of "not being able to trust the government". At the beginning of the pandemic, the overwhelming message from the government was "do not wear masks", with variations like "people wouldn't know how to put them properly as you need to be a professional to do so", "they are not efficient”, or “they make it easier to catch the virus", etc. One of the gov's spokesperson said something along the lines of "why would you put on a mask, I've never put a mask, I wouldn't know how to do it."
Turns out it was a way to mitigate their TERRIBLE management of mask stocks; masks have an expiration date, and it was just cheaper to buy less of them, considering we usually throw most of them out as we rarely need that many. Well, in this instance, we did need them. And sure enough, a few months later, "you have to wear a mask, or you'll be fined." when they got access to them.
Now I've always worn masks, but clearly, I see this type of speech that contradicts itself within a few weeks couldn't have helped people trusting the government. I myself do not trust said government, that excuse they used of "masks are useless" when they purposely had not properly supplied their stock is inadmissible imo.
Yes, I remember that.
I too was angry that they had lied to us at first—AND that they hadn’t (instead) just ramped up production and (free) distribution of masks ASAP.
But I didn’t let that anger interfere with doing the right thing, to protect myself and others, once we knew the truth.
I remember that too.
I think if they said since the beginning that we had to wear masks but that they, themselves (as a government), didn't manage the production of masks in a way that would allow everyone to have access to masks right now people would have felt less betrayed by the brutal shift of discourse and the mandatory masks overnight when people couldn't even buy them. They should have told people how to make homemade masks while waiting until the "real" ones were here. But I guess it's better to treat your population as dumb people instead of being honest...
That's not quite the whole story, though. The closest relative to SARS-COV-2 known at the time was SARS-COV-1 (the "OG" SARS). SARS-COV-1 is not airborne; it spreads largely through contact with contaminates surfaces. So they began with the assumption that SARS-COV-2 was also not airborne.
Hence the emphasis for the first few months on cleaning and disinfecting everything.
Hence also, I suspect, the slowness of many governments to procure masks in quantity and the governments' original recommendations against wearing masks.
That was a costly assumption, but not a lie.
Had those governments continued to downplay masks AFTER determining that SARS-COV-2 was airborne, that would be a lie.
I do not believe that was the case in the US, but perhaps France was different.
This is the first video I've watched that really understands covid vaccine skeptiscm like how I've seen it in my sister. Dealing with her is terribly frustrating and I honestly resent her for being so careless around this pandemic, but at the same time all these anti-vax caricatures online have always been so over-the-top and unhelpful that it's insulting to her and to me, because that's just not what (most) actual covid vaccine skeptics are like it.
My sister is the frustrating mirror of the people in this study; she feels being vaccinated and boosted means she can throw all other precautions to the wind...
As someone with very first hand expirience of someone who completly fullfills the media portrait i must say, that sadly those people do still exist. And at least in Germany its surprisingly common. But there might be a cultural difference, it would be very interesting to know if i might've just gotten "unlucky" with a family member of mine to be a very special individual or if theres an actual difference in countries. Sorry that just came to mind.
Being "terribly frustrated" and "resentful" about someone's personal health choices means you are an absolute loon.
@@mrpipps90 its... contagious, so no, they're not.
@@lizabeth529 and you have a vaccine to protect you. After that mind your own business.
9:11 as a neurodivergent person idk why this bit is so funny to me? like its nice to see someone check their preconceptions about down syndrome but also like. nice save, Carol, got there just in time
I used to be vaccine hesitant, but for completely different reasons, while still fully supporting vaccination programs. In years past, I would rationalize not getting the flu vaccine, because I didn't want to take medical resources away from people who might need them more. I was also in a bad place then, and didn't care what happened to me, just so long as I didn't hurt anyone else. I had a similar rationale to the COVID vaccine at first, because I kept hearing that supplies were limited and difficult to get to the people who needed them, which was easy for me to interpret as the government not caring if I lived or died. After all, they'd already told me I didn't qualify for the relief checks, because reasons. I had to learn just how short-sighted my beliefs were, which took getting very sick multiple times in 2020, albeit not from COVID.
If I'd gotten the flu due to not being vaccinated, and then spread it to others who are immunocompromised, that would count as harming others based on my own decisions. If I'd ended up hospitalized, that would definitely take medical resources away from those who need them more. If I were to get the flu, and then get exposed to another preventable illness, the outcome would be much worse due to my immune system already being occupied fighting something else. All of these apply to COVID as well. I was already taking all the precautions, like masking and social distancing, as well as things that went beyond that like disinfecting surfaces at home and wiping down any goods brought home. So it didn't make sense to undermine all that by holding off on the vaccine. I would probably have fallen into all of the categories of people in the study at once, except that I decided it was better to get vaccinated to prove the same points.
The pharmaceutical companies will profit far less from your getting the free vaccine, as opposed to your needing the emergency treatments (which are often experimental themselves) that can run you tens of thousands. You give up far fewer of your rights, to travel and mingle with others and enter places of business, if you're vaccinated. The government has far less control over your life if you're healthy as opposed to sick. So the best way to avoid all the things that the vaccine hesitant are most worried about, is to get vaccinated.
" I didn't want to take medical resources away from people who might need them more." I'll admit even being firmly pro-vaccines that was what had me delay getting my shot. I was under the assumption it would be like polio with people lined up for miles and I wanted the high-risk people to get theirs first before someone with no adverse medical conditions who works from home and doesn't get out much. Come to find out I'm in the bible belt and there was literally no line.
No vaccines since they were forced on me as a child and I'm doing great! I love not pumping all those chemicals and toxins into my body.
@@jennifernordlund2691 Instead you live with the disease of spending all day spamming comments on youtube videos trying to make arguments about the global effects vaccines with only your flimsy personal anecdotes to share.
@@jennifernordlund2691 did you consider that one of the reasons you're doing great is because you were vaccinated against various diseases wh/ could've impaired you?
"vote with your dollar means people with no dollars get no votes" is absolutely ripper, need to use that more often
And people with a lot of dollars get a lot of votes.
Yeah the fact that “vote with your dollar” is still an idea when we have rampant income inequality is a joke. Vote with your body and your voice. At least all of us only get one of those.
Yes! This is the heart of the "money = speech= first amendment rights" line of cases at the U.S. Supreme Court, culminating in the Citizen's United decision.
So my brother turned out to be a vaccine skeptic (when my mom and I got vaccinated, he took a magnet to our arms because he thought we had been magnetized or microchipped. He’s also 43.) and it baffled my mom, my dad, and myself. But the thing that I still have trouble handling and the thing that made me angry with him (though I tried my best to hide it) was that I’m immunocompromised and have had asthma my whole life. He’s seen me spend week-long stays in the hospital even when I was a child from complications from lung infections and more. Also, at the time, our father had only recently completed cancer treatment AND he’s a diabetic and he’s elderly. He also lives with my mom who is nearly 70.
I’ll be honest - even with this even-handed and measured piece that I genuinely think was great - I don’t get it. I’ve done all sorts of things that scare me for the sake of people I care about and society at large. I guess what I’m saying is that I understand that the skeptics want us to understand them and their choices. But that ultimately, in real terms, it feels like they don’t give a shit about whether I or my father or mother live or die because I guess we should just die off anyway already since we’re so weak and have so many issues that make it likely that this virus could kill one of us. The ONLY way I get to live a full life in society just like everyone else - where I get to go to concerts and restaurants again without bloody masks - is if like 95% of people get themselves vaccinated. Even if there are potential risks, even if you have a choice, I’d always choose to take the bullet to protect those who can’t protect themselves. I feel like it’s fair play to morally challenge the choices that people make. Like with the free speech argument, it often feels like when people talk about freedom in this space, they don’t mean the ability to say whatever they want - they mean the ability to not get CRITICIZED for it. And I think that that’s a direct inversion of freedom. If you are free to make a choice, then I should be free to say what I think about that choice even if you don’t like it. You’re free to walk away from it, but you aren’t free to make my opinions cease to exist. Similarly, when people talk about vaccine passports and mandatory masking and the like, I ask about the freedoms of those who can’t get vaccinated or who have health conditions that increase the likelihood of death. What about their freedoms? It’s not really a free choice is the alternative is risking death.
I don’t know. I should probably stop writing all my thoughts on the subject in a YouTube comment section but, as all these restrictions are lifting, I’ve been increasingly forced to stay home bored out of my mind because I can no longer be certain that when I go to a restaurant or bar with my friends, that I’ll be (relatively) safe. It’s also much harder to do work from home job hunting than in—person jobs and I can’t take one of those. So… I’m stuck venting my frustrations here, I guess. Ugh.
I hear you (as a fellow asthmatic) I feel like the problem is the ableism present in society that's so unseen but ingrained that it seeps into everyday people, even those we love, like background radiation & those who don't stop and think about their own internal biases can easily fall into a place of security and privilege where they simply don't think about those of us who are disabled even if they do know people like us; It's so insidious.
Thank you for writing all of this.
I found myself in a similar situation not so long ago. What you said was very well put; I too can't understand how inconsiderate some people ( even relatives and close ones) can be. Many need to realise that not everything is about them and their choice and so on, especially when it comes to such large scale health hazard as Covid, that has shown time and time again that it substantially harms the more vulnerable individuals around us. For example, those who deal with asthma, such as yourself.
I feel you and I don't know what to say. What you wrote is like my thoughts, excatly. I think this particular comment section is a good place to vent and I'm glad you did.
I love this comment. I just can't sympathise. I was in a video call with my grandfather, an 86 year old man who is AFRAID of dying to covid. He found out that his church friends are not vaccinated, they omitted that and spent time with him. They also join us on these video calls. During one of their rants one of them literally said aloud with this 86 year old, at risk, person in the call - "It only kills people with underlying conditions and people over 80.".
I can't and won't sympathise. They are selfish people.
@@iloveyoubigmantyrone5609 This is ultimately my thoughts as well. People who are unvaccinated make a big gripe about getting called selfish and about being told they don't care about people, all while literally only being able to think about their own health and not caring how their choices affect the people around them. I have no patience or sympathy for people who choose to walk around in a forest while pouring gasoline on themselves saying "what, I should be allowed to set myself on fire if I want, I'm only hurting myself."
What's interesting to me is how these folks are all so focused upon their distrust of "the gubmint" while completely ignoring the chains around government held in the hands of oligarchy, business and commercial interests.
Why is that "interesting" to you? It's a sub-par juvenile ironical observation, what's ground breaking about it?
The other thing I find is that, at least in the US (not sure if it might be a little less common in the UK and other countries), the hardcore antivaxxers overwhelmingly tend to also be the ones screaming about "blue lives matter" and proclaiming their complete faith in the police and prison industrial complex! I'm like... no, you're not distrusting of the government, you only dislike the government when you think they're getting in YOUR way of being able to do whatever the hell you want at all times, no mind to the consequences. You're completely and totally fine with them wreaking havoc on the lives of actually marginalized people.
Love just dropping in "human pussy virus" in the middle of a totally serious and factual speech. Almost spat my coffee. Love the videos, your sets and production of each scene really inspire me.
I'm sick and have spent the last few days throwing up badly, causing chest pains due to the spasms. It hurts to laugh that hard T-T
Is HPV both Human PeePee Virus and Human Pussy Virus?
Yea I literally died
I liiterally had to pause the video to catch my breath.
Followed immediately by “in the early naughties” (00’s)
@PhilosophyTube - 2022-02-23
Really excited by this one - it's real, practical philosophy that changes people's lives!
@gnocchidokie - 2022-02-25
@@bcw1313 Good thinking. We must come to those conclusions first and be pre-disappointed before the first second of the video airs 🙄. This is probably going to be a 45 minute+ deep dive into the topic that will challenges some of our beliefs and leave us with things to think about more deeply on our own, rather than being spoon fed a hot take tweet on the subject, which unfortunately has been the only “discourse” that most people seem willing to engage in on the matter. So why don’t you wait until after watching the whole video before before whining?
@miguelinileugim - 2022-02-25
Woo!
@gnocchidokie - 2022-02-25
@@bcw1313 I can appreciate this. I’m probably overstepping here, but what may be happening is that you’re consuming too much content and too many thinkpieces. “But Spam,” you may be thinking, “I want to be well read on the matter so I can make the most informed opinion!” What you’re actually doing, I would argue, is outsourcing your thinking to the likes of bread tube content creators. So when they state an opinion you don’t agree with, it’s not enough to just disagree, it’s always a broaderstroke “problem” with the “community.” It’s not. It may be a consensus among a single digit number of content creators, but don’t mistake that for the community writ large. And I say this from a place of love, I had to step away myself and reconsider the amount of content I was consuming. I wish you healing and peace of mind.
@michimatsch5862 - 2022-02-25
@@gnocchidokie it is also good if we disagree. We are not a hive mind.
Unity on the left means united in purpose and praxis.
Theoretical disagreements are valid and should be encouraged.
@TerriMRoberts - 2022-02-25
That's the best kind of philosophy there is!!