Applied Science - 2019-02-20
An electro-osmotic pump is an unusual and interesting way to pump fluids and also measure their flow rate with only an electric field (no magnets). Refs (in order of relevance) https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/S0039-9140(99)00320-3 http://micromachine.stanford.edu/~dlaser/research_pages/electrokinetics_and_eof.html https://www3.nd.edu/~changlab/documents/Youcef.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2756694/ https://psec.uchicago.edu/library/photocathodes/SiO2_OH_model.pdf https://www.patreon.com/AppliedScience
I wasn't expecting the flow to be that fast or the current so low.
@bigclivedotcom plasterer by trade dont do it anymore but done a lot of damp wall in the past, stainless weld rods ive been told by some cowboys lol
I only started watching your vids the other day some light reviews bbrought me to your channel👍nice
Has nothing on a COB light/solar panel.
@Applied Science The more you know. 🌈
@Applied Science If you are ever on Isle of Man, or Bigclive is near you... A collaboration should happen.
Wow Two of my favorite YouTube channels all in one spot you and This Old Tony!! Has to be a good Channel then!
This is amazing. All in the quest of silent pumps.
He is creating a chemical electrolysis so this thing wont hold forever cuz the stainless steel rods will corrode and die out and its very limited to types of liquids and you cant drink from this either.
The first time I heard about the kind of pumps it was actually about special engines for soviet submarines from the 70s. It was long ago. So the idea is definitely not new. And the biggest challenge was to prevent electrolysis and gas bubbles formation because leaving a huge trail behind would kinda make the whole stealth and silence thing useless. The rumors told that they managed to deal with it somehow. Don't know what it was but I would guess a multistage construction with some kind of a catalyst in between the electrodes.
@Кирилл Рагузин You could probably just pass the exhaust through a honeycomb of catalyst after both electrodes to recombine the gasses back to water and a clever design could harness the heat released by this for many purposes.
@Lehan Jones 56000000 on the channel you can pick numbers to suit any idea. Doesnt mean anything
Small Current = Deadly !!!
You got something against magnets?
Just kidding. Nicely done with a good explanation. Solid.
I enjoy your videos because they're very well made and unique, unlike many other channels on YT.
"There's a lot of complicated math they like to throw in there because it's an academic paper"
@Applied Science Why is it understandable that they make it as complicated and difficult as possible?
Michael Cheponis Things get really funny if you take many even highly formal papers, and stick their reasoning into a theorem prover (with axioms, lemmas and theorems that build the requisite theory they play with). It’s insanely easy to make the “paper math” be ever so slightly wrong. Looks fine to human eyes, but once you see (with the aid of a prover) where some types mismatch, you know that it’s wrong, especially if they don’t invoke any theorems to explain a given step (or invoke a rather incomplete set of theorems).
Given how easy it is to misapply formal math, and given that professionals do it all the time, I’d say that it’s a good idea to be humble and simplify rather than formalize. If you formalize without a theorem prover, it’s extremely likely that it’s mental masturbation as I call it. On the other hand, using theorem provers seems like mental masturbation too, but at least you get logically coherent results: it’s shooting blanks, but at least there’s a target :)
And some poor soul reading your math won’t have to wonder whether they don’t get something or the paper is simply subtly wrong. I’ve spent more time that I will to admit being just stumped by all sorts of errors in paper math. When you’re trying to learn it, you blame yourself first. Knowing that you spent a week because of a typo or two really drives the point home about how important accuracy is when you brandish formal math. It also makes you jaded with age :) I now assume that anything written by non-mathematicians is assumed broken until shown otherwise. It seems like a safe assumption. Saves lots of time. And mathematicians are not immune to it either, of course. But they seem to care more.
Sometimes I think they make things unnecessarily complicated so that other can't understand what they're doing. It helps hide errors or gaps in understanding or just makes things seem more complicated so investors feel like they're getting their money's worth. Another possibility is that they are rushing and not bothering to simplify or clean up their papers again due to pressure from investors. Of course it's also possible that something really is super complex and there's no better way to explain it (or they struggle with the same issues a lot of people with niche knowledge or jobs do and don't know how to simplify things down to layman's terms).
5pm
@Applied Science Surely there is an equation that relates voltage, diameter and thickness of filter to pressure gradient.
So awesome!
SmarterEveryDay sees this "DID SOMEONE SAY LAMINAR FLOW?"
Laminar pipe flow situations.
I suppose...but this is essentially a sealed system. There's not enough force being exerted fast enough to cause turbulence momentum in the pipe, so mechanical laminar flow inside a closed system. Hydraulics.
A reverse parabola pulling near the sides ...turbulence is ineffiency ask a pro plumber 👍
That channel blows
@nunya i know this is old but for anyone looking at this, yes what you were aiming to describe is laminar flow. Laminar flow is related to the turbulence, if too turbulent, you can't have laminar. Also a good rule of thumb, if you are not in a pipe, assume you do not have laminar flow unless you have some very good evidence. And hydraulics is purely the study of how fluids move.
@hubert cumberdale --- Yes. He also creates a resistance when he blocks the air flow at the top of the column, similar to having air in a hydraulic system. The fluid only rises so high because the compressed gas overcomes the pressure from the incompressable fluid.
That is so cool
looks like you are using a Power Designs 2K-10 power supply. I worked for Power Designs back in the late '60s at their Stanford Industrial Park facility (Palo Alto, California) where the 2K-10 was produced. Brings back some fond memories. Glad to see after about 50 years it is still working.
The Power Designs supplies are excellent. I own a 2010, a 3650-S, and a 3K10B. All of them work perfectly and are in regular use on my bench, and the 3650 is older than the moon landing.
Nice! I've got a 2020B! Still works.
I just bought a Power Designs 6050D. Never heard of the company before that
I’ve restored about a dozen of the older 2000 series supplies. The build quality in them was amazing! The main failure mode on them is the thermal switch inside the reference oven. They used a simple bimetallic switch to keep the oven at 80c. You can still buy new switches but it requires completely disassembling the oven assembly, which is difficult to do without breaking the bakelite base.
I ended up designing a solid state replacement based on an op-amp, SSR and thermistor. You just drill a small hole in the oven base, feed the thermistor up and seal it in with some silicone sealant. The circuit is powered directly from the AC via a simple capacitive dropper.
This keeps the oven at 80c +-0.25c, which is better than the +-3c of the original bimetallic switch.
I’ve resold about 10 of these refurbished supplies on eBay and they’ve been working for 5 years now with no problems!
I’ve got about 5 Power Designs supplies in my lab, my favorite being the 2020B!
You make the coolest things...
Also, I truly admire your rate of progress.
Yes, nice craftsmanship indeed! and this was a very interesting property to explore.
@volvo09 this guys eats subjects for breakfast. Every month he's doing something new and amazing.
I didn’t notice the clamp until he took it apart lol.
Me too! I was like " what's holding today rubber bits on the end?"
you blind nigga?
woah
Kyle Eames doooh!
Francois Dupontbitch!
When it's only about the electric field, why not just isolate the electrodes, maybe even just with a thin layer of insulant? Wouldn't this prevent all the electrolysis-side-effects or am I missing something?
I'm not talking about a static field. I'm talking about a dynamic or alternating field. I'm saying charges move in an electric double-layer capacitor even without electrolysis. Then 3 of you said capacitors can't pass a DC current. Yeah, I know. Doesn't mean that charges don't move in a capacitor with an AC field.
Once you understand that, then note that this motion can be leveraged to get continuous flow by daisy-chaining them together. It's the basic principle of peristalsis. Don't try to tell me you're incapable of swallowing food because your esophagus can only contract and relax and can't actually move with the food.
You're trying to claim that surfing a wave is impossible because the ocean water only goes up and down.
@Applied Science Keith Reynolds: "He said a lot of the energy is going to the electrochemical separation of hydrogen and oxygen. That is kinda true. in reality, a small amount is actually going to making hydrogen and oxygen. The rest is called overvoltage and goes to making heat. That just makes more thermal load for the radiator to eject. "
Me: Ah yes but there IS a way to increase the efficiency so that the energy lost to heat is minimized and more/most of it goes into the electrolysis process... Just like a linear regulator loses a lot of energy as heat, and a switching regulator minimizes that heat loss and is much more efficient. Maybe applying a similar principle to that comparison would work, this is linear electrolysis we need switching electrolysis! Let's figure it out and then unlike stanely myer don't keep it secret but post it far and wide everywhere you can possibly think of before they get you like they got stanely! So that way the cat will be out of the bag and there will be no way to get the world to unlearn how to do it! Then we can have cars that run on water man! No hydrogen storage tank necessary, a water tank instead and a water->hydrogen fuel injector cell that converts it on demand with high efficiency! :D Upon the hydrogen burning the exhaust becomes once again water! Clean burning, high energy density future fuel! :D
@Boris Mezhibovskiy It would equal a capacitor. There would be flow until the internally oriented charge cancels the externally applied field.
Roboticus I guess all you need with insulated electrodes, then, is a buffer solution that can neutralize the ions. At least for demo purposes it’d be cool to see that work.
@Applied Science Upon watching this again, the question that springs to my mind is whether or not, in an electrolysis cell, a magnetic field could be used to separate the H and O by controlling the flow of electrolyte past the electrodes?
nice little set up, could sell that to universities/schools for lab demos. have you tried adding dyes/particles to see flows
Dyes would add contamination to the distilled water.
One. Ping. Only.
we must give this american a wide berth
I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!
@Alpha Adhito I just heard the same / similar thing said by Queeg in Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles S02E18 about 20 minutes in. (I'm re-watching the series.) I'm sure it's an homage to the earlier usage though.
@Alpha Adhito I must have watched the movie on VHS dozens of times when I was a kid. I had a b/w TV set and VCR in my room at the time (I was a tech nerd, even at that age), and would put this movie in to fall asleep to. I seldom actually fell asleep to it, but it gave me an excuse to watch late at night.
Vasily never got to experience the joy of owning a recreational vehicle. :c
Such flow profile distortion also exists for a flow in a packed bed. This is because the packing at the wall is less dense (due to geometry) hence the resistance to the flow is lower.
> there's a lot of maths they like to throw at you because it's an academic paper
man, when you're finally happy with your LaTeX setup, it's just impossible to stop writing formulas with it! :D
Can anyone help me understand how this actually moves the water, and not just the hydrogen? Maybe I'm lacking some elementary understanding, but if the only thing moving across the barrier is hydrogen, then what does it re-combine with on the other side to form water again? This is really cool, I understand the rest of the video for the most part, but I really don't grok the actual chemistry happening at the barrier!
Ions have a relatively large solvation shell, which means moving an ion effects a lot of water molecules around it.
There is no water recombination at the end, but electrolysis.
I believed there is nothing about separation of water molecules. It is actually much more like what happened in a vacuum tube. Two electro applied with high voltage in vacuum tube will create high electrical field that tend to pull electron out of the negative electro and create a current to flow through the vacuum.
Now, filled the vacuum with water molecules, what will happen is the break away electron from negative electron will attach to the water molecule in contact with the negative electro, and the electron will use the water molecule as a traveling vehicle carriage. The water molecule is thus dragged and accelerated by the electrical field along the way toward positive electro. In the middle of traveling, the negatively charged water molecule may collision with other non-charged molecules and push other molecules to move in the same direction as well. Therefore the water flow is proportional to the electron current.
However, the water molecules that function as traveling vehicle carriage is subject to traffic jam. When external pressure force is applied to stop the water molecules flow, the electron sitting in the molecular vehicle is experiencing the traffic jam as well and caused the electrical power supply current reduction.
@BetterlifetechIST A water molecule can't carry electron directly. Electron solvation, what you described, exists but it's an exotic effect, and very limited in water (if it exists at all). In water, ions are carrying the charge, and if it's a DC, it always ends with electro chemical reactions on the electrode surface. (In high frequency AC case that's not necessary.) Even in pure water H2O <-> H+ + OH- autodissociation produces the ions to conduct electricity.
@Pillio Zoltan It is an electrostatic effect for an electron to attached to non-conductive materials. Any insulator material has the capability to be electrostatic charged such as plastic, hair, or paper will be attracted by the positive or negative charge. The video has demonstrated the effect of the water stream got attracted and deflected by the electrostatic force. When in contact with electron-rich negative electro, and under high electric field, an electron is able to escape from metal after break the work function barrier of the metal electro. This effect is similar to a thunder hit on a spike of the conductor, the electron will flow even in a vacuum. In a given dielectric material, there is always a break down electrical filed that will cause an electron to flow in the dielectric material. Of course, the flowing of ions will be the primary source of current if ion exists. But in this case, since no chemical reaction happens in this experiment show in the video, as he used de-ion water. And if it really existed separation of H+ and OH- ions and flowing of ions, that represent the current indicated in the power supply display, then, H+ will move to negative electro while OH- will move to positive electro, and it will quickly have a huge amount of H+ accumulated in the boundary of negative electro and a huge amount of OH- will be accumulated in the positive electro boundary, and the electric field establishes by H+ and OH- will be opposite to the electric field established by the power supply. They will quickly reach an equilibrium condition and result in the net eclectic field become zero and should end up no more current will be able to flow through the circuit loop and the power supply current should quickly die down to zero. But form the video, we have seen the current did not quickly die down to zero but continue like a DC circuit and maintain a constant level when there is no other external interruption applied to the system after he turned on the power supply. So, the current show on the power supply is not attributed to the OH- ane H+ ion flow. If it was electrolysis, you will see chemical reaction happened on both of the electro, and form bobbles. But we did not see the chemical reaction happen on the electro in the video, so the flow of current is not caused by electrolysis.
Instead, electron attached to the insulator(water) molecule by electrostatic force, and then the electrostatically charged insulator molecules flow in the electric field. from negative electro toward positive electro. When arrived at the positive electro, the electron hopped back into metal electro and flow in the wire back to the power supply. This phenomenon will cause the power supply to continue to have the current flowing without dying down to zero after the power supply turned on.
@BetterlifetechIST Liquid water always contains ions, because the water itself can dissociative to ions. It's called autodissociation, and it happens in pure water too.
It took me a little time to understand you use your ammeter reversed.
Yes, that bothered me. Why not show increasing current as up on the display.
@D Williams To be fair, he did show it as up when he switched the power supply polarity and flow direction.
@Mindbulletz Yes, I didn't jump on him. Over the years I am sure I did similar things when it was convenient, but only when I or an associate was involved.
About being fair, I find very few fair comments on YouTube and sadly they are almost all written by folks with an agenda or zero knowledge about the subject. For a while I tried to offer constructive information for those folks but they either respond with another wrong statement, or if they run out of things to say they start calling someone names. You aren't allowed to be helpful on YouTube. (Well, you are though.)
I wonder what would happen if you replace the glass frit with hydrated SiO2 aerogel (before drying it), as the pores are a few nanometers the flow could be greatly enhanced.
Here is a link to a dissertation where they did just that! https://www.google.com/url?q=https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4f76/fcc7bf921535cd2a8aa61e53a89c767d0a7b.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiZ76XzitPkAhUElawKHVN1AH4QFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw0ecdPwB0yxwVQt-4kgVPgy
A charged gel like agar works too. in fact the gel will move if it is not constrained.
“Reverse” osmosis should be called forced osmosis! I never really knew what that meant
Nice work
So if the liquid had contaminants that are larger than the mesh/filter, those meshes & frit filter would need to be replaced/maintained?
I guess in most environments where this kind of thing would be used, everything would be controlled.
Thanks Applied Science! Again, I watch a 21 minute video and learn several things that change the way I think about the universe around me. Amazing stuff!
This is a beautiful demonstration with many different directions that one could go with it, to understand and to improve. This is exactly the type of inspiring open-ended demonstrations that should be standard in public schools. Bravo!
18:21 "chemical reaction with the wall" vs ionic polarization, is the process best characterised as chemical or ionic?
could one use this design as a means to electrolyze water while minimizing thermal losses?
I believe efficient electrolysis of pure water is a big topic in physics
only practical way at this time to raise cell electrical efficiency is raise temperature and supply part of the energy thermally
"You may recall the movie.." That was literally the last thing I was watching before watching this one! :)
I worked on this as an undergrad. Didn’t get anywhere really took me a whole year to fully grasp the mechanisms at that level and my post doc advisor would just assign me the projects that he stalled out on (which in hindsight was a bit unfair) but it was really interesting. We’d etch borosilicate glass like you do silicon to get these tiny channels. Use 20,000 V (very low currents). They had several applications proposed- though when I went back a decade later it seemed little real “big picture” progress was made (tbf I have not reviewed the papers from the group in a very long time). Specifically my post doc worked on doing electrophoresis of proteins in 2 dimensions using the chip. He and the group used positive charged micelles which moved contrary to the field, non-polar proteins would spend more time inside the Micelle and going the wrong way for the first dimension. The second dimension we’d dump in the same buffer minus SDS sufficient to break the micelles. This would make a second dimension separate on charge vs drag. (First was charge vs polarity ratio)
This is after discover the effect of oxygen with magnet in chemistry...i thing it is the same principle...great video✌😎👍
some one has the worng l given a culet to malacite and the black film on the inside catching symmetries movements
Awesome, Ben! I love your videos.
I'm curious. Can you reverse the concept and produce power? Like a non mechanical turbine.
Always an awesome day when we get a new Applied Science video
This is really cool, can’t say I’ve ever seen it on video before. Love the use of the glass frit filter
I also saw you supported tom’slab on patreon the other day which is really damn awesome of you so thank you!
Would you consider doing a video about graphene chemical vapor deposition?
Anyone else get anxiety watching him drip water on the "DANGER: HIGH VOLTAGE" sign?
I like how you have the guts to post a link to sci-hub :)
wow, I had no idea. Thank you so much for these videos, learning new things every time.
2:30 It's the first time I hear the term current meter instead of ammeter.
Lots of interesting stuff happens at the boundaries between physics and chemistry.
Wow, that was cool, Ben! Thanks! I was going to ask about the Micron size of the porous glass membrane. I wonder what the results would be playing with the micron sizes and making them more homogenous?
Something bothers me for nearly 50 years - does any form of artificially changed gravity is possible?
Extremely interesting
I think it says a lot that a large number of my favorite YouTubers are all the top comments on your video Ben. Excellent video as always!
Great Apparatus and video.
17:00 that feeling when my brain figure something and connect the dots. Wish it happens more often.
I wonder if you can enhance the separation at the walls? LIke having some different electric field there to assist? Not sure if that would mess up the overall flow field though.
Really interesting unique content right here! Always enjoy your videos 🙂
You are so freaking smart have the most interesting projects I love it keep up the awesome work
Somehow, I always get new research ideas through watching your diversed videos. Thx.
This Old Tony - 2019-02-20
you're a braver man than I, sharing this tech with the 21st century.
Tuffenough4u - 2019-12-05
@Suraj Grewal That's easy. Cancer dies at between 100,000 and 300,000 hertz with an 11 octave separation of harmonics. Look it up. Sound waves kill cancer. Dude was on TED talk.
swojmil - 2020-04-08
This is U-shaped experiment of Franciszek Dionizy Rychnowski from ca. 1879-1889y described in his books. The man later made flying cars on the eteroid (in Lvov, Ukraine, then Poland) and compressed eteroid (or "eter", or maybe koron) into fluid. The electric pressure is how the atmosphere works, and btw how Atlantis was sunken by white-mask goddess, and how lately the Nazis changed water levels of sea around Venice, Poland and even Venezuela (descendants of Wendish people probably targeted by some poorly educated historian). After II WW reprogramming of man's culture the technology was known as Hitler's secret weapon ie. flying saucers made by Victor Filip Schauberger who had seen F.D. Rychnowski's electric healing machine (and btw water fountain made by the eteroid beam) during exposition in Viena in 1883y. Before Rychnowski death in 1929y the technology of the electroid and the observation of plasma bubbles in biological cells in ultraviolet monochromatic microscopy was stolen by married count Lubomirski and given to Wilhelm Reich from Dobrzanica (and later known as the orgon/bion) and also to Royal Rife. Before Reich (spokesman of sexual revolution) died in prison of FBI (btw first ever in history of mankind power organization controlled by gays) the technology was passed to Trevor Constable who used to travel oceans on a small ship and was followed by hurricanes made by Constable's orgon gun. The science of free people ends here.
After development of grass-movement of the orgon gunners (cloudbusters and chembusters) the Nazi-based American syndicate took over the technology of electrification of skies and made it into microwave-activated chemtrails. The coordinated ejections of water vapor form thousands of power plants ware later used to create hurricanes that, among other things, destroyed New Orleans (katrina) and ofc other American communities described on the yt channel weatherwarrior101. That's not all yet. This was "Paper clip" Nazi guys from US. Let's see how "731 unit" Nazi guys form Japan are doing with corona-viruses.. Well, we're all stacked.
PS. I should also mention that the ufo (Pleiades and Grays saucers) were in reality Schauberger's saucers, and in more original times ware known as Totenkopf's saurces of class II. So, "Plaiadians" means Nazi-German driven by Qatar devils, descendants of jinns thrown out of Tartaria by Bon mages, and previously won from Europe by Celts and previously dropped inhere during the great conjunction when evil spirit came, known from Avesta. And "reptils" means Negas of Indus known originally as Varaks ([vrag] -enemy in Russian, [vrug] in Polish), descendants of first dragon made by admin Vishnu not earlier than blue people living around silver Indus and killed by then elect king of gods Indra. While all kinds of shape-shifters are race mixes of before-mentioned beast races with "summoners of the beauty" bred at ancient imperial courts, mostly took from Shambhala, Tibet, today under repitl-eyes enslavement (ie. in custody of new Chinese race dropped inhere in 1978y). The "summoners of beauty" shape-shifters ware made as homunculus in Arkaim (today Russian), the same as man. But we humans are the crown of the creation (korona-virus, crown-poison).
Chuck Itall - 2020-09-10
This old Tony went back in time and taught This old Tony and Doc how to go back in time.
I'm thinking he must be using an osmosis pump in the belly of his time machine to pump millennial fluid through the flux capacitor to keep it cool. I see no other way.
Elizabeth Garrett - 2020-09-23
@swojmil what r u rambling about i hear some truth and some ??? I dont know what ...
swojmil - 2020-09-23
@Elizabeth GarrettThat was old quick ride about historical facts. Be more specific, women.