Applied Science - 2019-06-15
Laboratory synthesis and systematic testing of a corrosion inhibitor commonly found in engine oils. This inhibitor is the reaction product of 2,5-dimercapto-1,3,4-thiadiazole and oleic acid. Source of recipe: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4193882 Water fogger: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TN5EUUE/ Source of DMTD: https://www.amazon.com/TCI-America-Bismuthiol-B0593-25G-95-0/dp/B0727V9DQY/ Oleic Acid: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BLUTRO2 https://www.patreon.com/AppliedScience
Very well done!
The synthesis was interesting and suggests that there might be some applications where this molecule is bonded to resins like epoxy and polyester to produce corrosion inhibiting coatings and paints.
Thanks
Very cool, and really impressive results!
“Hope you found that interesting?” Understatement of the year. This is nothing short of awesome. I am not a chemist and I have no real immediate need for knowledge about corrosion inhibition. But I learned an incredible amount. Thanks for the experiment and the best-on-YouTube explanation style.
Yes, this was incredible! Now I'm just left wondering what wears away this protectant? Knowing this will be so much easier than greasing stuff to protect it.
Bert Holtappels
He’s very good about explaining the methods and logic for his analyses.
Bert, I'm with you. Chemistry was my one nemesis subject in college - loved it but so much of it seemed arbitrary (40 years later, oh but could I take it over again with a seasoned brain, patience, and a whole lot more discipline!). I have a small machine shop and though it is very arid here on the Colorado front range, as the population rapidly grows and climate change, I'm seeing rust sneak in more than ever over the years. Though he really didn't speak to it, notice that WD-40 did among the best. That's great, because I use it like cheap beer to wipe down about anything in the shop if I don't have something more specific to use - to that gives some economical hope!
I'm a chemist working on an anticorrosion polymer. I find this very useful as well.
Outstanding video as always.
Dude, never stop posting. You're the best channel on YT, period.
Isn't he a good teacher!? :D
@Chemicalvamp dont let him know that he might start to charge money
The depth of research exposed in each video is worth more than gold
FYI: To simplify your apparatus at 9:05, insert a rubber septa on your round bottom with your reagents already inside. Fill a balloon with argon and attach it to a plastic syringe with the plunger removed (easier to attach the balloon to the syringe before filling with argon - use Parafilm to seal balloon/syringe). With a needle on the syringe, pierce the rubber septa. To purge with argon from the balloon, use a second syringe to pierce the septa and draw (pull syringe plunger) air/argon from the round bottom a few times. Leave the balloon/syringe/needle in the septa during the reaction. This will maintain a slight positive pressure of argon in the round bottom. This inert reaction setup with a balloon is done routinely in chem labs.
I am corrosion engineer in the subsea business. You did a great job! N-compounds stick and protect copper alloys (brass, bronze, etc) while S-compound protect steels, this os why we use both N & S.
You should work with VpCI (vapour phase inhibitors) we use them in closed plastic bags for storing electronics during sea transport
How is Rust-Oleum oil spray?
"Quite a nice smell. Almost minty."
Nose falls off.
known to the state of cancer to cause California
@HPD1171 korntackt
i also wonder. . . does a person want to pursue.. what is this unexpected thing.. what are its properties etc
Get real. people smoke crack and their noses don't fall. This is nothing like crack, as the thumbnail clearly shows
@adonisds
"This is nothing like crack" - adonisds 2020
Interesting video thanks! For a related pdf from the FAA covering aircraft corrosion control, go to the FAA's website, then under 'Advisory Circulars', search for 43-4B. It's about 6.6MB [1], and covers a wide range of materials. As you can imagine, corrosion has always been a major nemesis of aircraft, and a lot of time, effort & research has gone into it's prevention & mitigation. While at the FAA website note there are many other very informative 'advisory circulars'[2], ranging from single page, through multi volume text books... and all free! (Another great one is AC 43.13-1B, titled 'Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair'.
[1] Note that recently cancelled 43-4A is there as well.
[2] The 'AC' prefix seen frequently on/in these documents merely stands for 'Advisory Circular'... the FAA likes & uses that terminology a lot.
Chloride ions definitely have an influence on corrosion rate, it's not just the conductivity. It's also how well the ions can complex the iron, chloride ions do that much better than i.e. formiate salts.
@Dimitrije Krstić Have you ever thought that the way the faraday cage works is by creating a 2nd field that cancels out the 1st field? That's how: you put a shell of conductor into an electric field. When you place a metal shell into an electric field, the electrons in that shell feel the field, and move. They accumulate on the surfaces until the electric field inside of the conductor is canceled out by the accumulated charges; after that, there is no field inside the conductor, and thus no flow of electrons. This also happens to cancel out the field inside the shell.
Same applies to any conductor. The conductivity only affects how fast the field is shielded.
Another way to look at the problem is: when OH− enters a solution that has some positive and negative ions, the negative ions are repelled by it and positive are attracted. This cancels out the long-range field of the OH− ion, and there remains only small region around it where the field remains. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debye_length
. The higher the ion concentration, the shorter that screening distance is. So in a perfectly distilled water, OH− would be attracted to Fe2+, and they "purposefully" drift towards each other. But when there is a bunch of other ions around, they will have to find each other by randomly diffusing around.
@Victor Titov I thought about it believe me, I just didn't agree with the way it was worded. What you described about e. fields canceling each other out is exactly what happens, but I don't know if there's a faraday cage happening in this case.
Victor Titov that’s a bit harsh mate. Ben is talking about aspects of anti-corrosion mechanisms - ie electrochemical / REDOX reactions so his explanation is absolutely correct the main action of his corrosion inhibitor is creating a passivation layer to prevent the metal becoming ionised and forming unwonted corrosion byproducts.
I honestly believe that attitudes such as yours discourage and suppress curiosity and exploration of the world around us.
I hope you enjoy the whee,l springs and of course fire. Without people exploring and thinking deeply about how things work we would not be playing with quantum mechanics for example which gave you the ability to connect to you tube and stream this type of content unfortunately it does not have an idiot filter so I take it from your hyper critical comment that you still believe the Earth is flat.
This is obviously no place for you to be passing comment. You have no idea, do you?
More available ions in solution = higher rate and more extensive corrosion
Faraday cage electrons move over the surface of the cage just the same way as they do on a piece of wire.
Of course you know everything there is to know about the subject - did you even ask Mr Google?
Ask Mr Google but be certain that it is a cite-able reference. Try google scholar you might actually learn something.
While you’re at it familiarise yourself with how the laws of physics change as you get down to the atomic and sub atomic levels
Then just for shits and giggles have a sneak peek at quantum mechanics
Now open your mouth again and change feet... please
Victor Titov what are you talking about - long range fields on hydroxide ions? Really? I must have missed those lectures at Uni...
In “perfectly distilled water” ... Water dissociates Self ionises to become OH- and H+ ions (more correctly H3O+) and then almost simultaneously rejoin to form H2O
This happens because of the V shape of the molecule (The oxygen atom has its bum hanging out with 2 sets of paired electrons buzzing around it like flies and forms a slightly negative side)
(The hydrogens hang out on the other aspect of the molecule and so form a slightly positive side) representing the 4 electron pairs forming a 3 dimensional tetrahedron and is polar has a negative and a positive aspect)
Which is why it can auto-disassociate (Break apart when two water molecules get close enough to each other and are aligned the right way)(see brownIan motion)(actually just look up the universal solvent) You really do have a lot to learn...
Of course H+ cant just hang out by itself it would just be a free positively charged proton so when it sees oxygens negatively charged behind exposed he hets a little excited and jumps on board
This forms an intermediate chemical species that is an acid H3O the remaining OH- are basic in nature (Almost instantaneously) the changes in charge potentials and proximity to each other result in the ions reforming 2 H2O molecules this is governed by a law of physics called THERMODYNAMICS of which the derbye length radius or sphere granted is a minor component in the picosecond the dissascociation / reassociation occurs you see the whole system is bound by STRONG COVALENT BONDS so miniscule ‘long range” forces like the derbye are RELATIVELY mitigant in this circumstance.
Here are the figures for water at 25 °C and 0.1 MPa are ΔU° = 59.5 kJ ˣ mol-1, ΔV° = 22.13 cm3 ˣ mol-1, ΔH° = 55.8 kJ ˣ mol-1, ΔG° = 79.9 kJ ˣ mol-1, ΔS° = -80.8 J ˣ K-1 ˣ mol-1
When you understand what this means come back and talk to any of the enlightened individuals rhat hang out in this space but don’t come around here spouting venom lies and bullshit I don’t think many people here have time for it.
I’ve seen your rubbish in a number of places now and am fed up enough to be here putting you back in your pathetic little box.
You have the world at your fingertips and you are obviously not motivated to find shit out for yourself.
Don’t be so bloody negative. You are shitting on the people who are committed and most likely to make a difference and advance our understanding of the universe why on earth would you discourage them with your self deluded imaginings? Grow up.
Seriously it would be better for everybody if you simply shoved your head so far up your arse that you disappear (Pop culture cartoon reference)
@Deep Forrest Alchemy "that’s a bit harsh mate" I agree, my comment is quite a bit too harsh. I watch Ben because all his videos and things he does are incredible, this video is of no exception. I gave this video a thumbs up without a shadow of a doubt.
Please stop making assumptions about my habits and beliefs, and search for my comments. I also have a youtube channel, just in case, although it's not at all successful. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBwtvPgdP5T6h2Uuk_b03QQ
I'm still surprised at how much flame my comment generates.
I experienced the Acetic acid effect recently by accident. I was resealing an old fish tank and had used razor blades to remove the old silicone seals. I had left a blade in the bottom of the tank when it was resealed using new silicone caulk. It seems that the outgassed Acetic acid vapor is heavier than air and tended to remain in the tank. After curing overnight the previously shiny razor blade was a now very smooth and consistent earthy brown color.
That slightly unusual-looking rust from acetic acid looks a bit like the finish you get on "corten" or weathering steel. I wonder if there is a different chemical in there or if the appearance is something to do with the rate at which it forms.
@Ben C It was a very consistent and attractive finished. I wondered if it might actually be useful in a way such as the rust bluing process used on firearms.
@Richard Casto I use cleaning vinegar as a rust remover sometimes. As long as you keep it thoroughly submerged and agitate from time to time you get a pleasant dark grey (ferric acetate?) coating and a lot of the rust flakes off. I doubt it is as durable as any proper bluing but it's cheap and good enough for restoration/maintenance on old hard-use carbon steel tools (axes, chisels, etc..).
Firearm 'browning', a predecessor to 'bluing', is based on rusting the metal then boiling it in clean water.
Boiling changes the loose powdery red rust into clingy black iron oxide.
Scrub off whatever is loose, rust and boil again!
You know when you are done when the steel doesn't rust any more!
Depending on the steel, the colors you can get are browns, light greens and purples.
Rub the steel with tallow or lard, then lightly bake it...like seasoning a frying pan!
Old flintlock muskets and the like were protected this way. Hematite with oleum top-coat.
Super interesting, as always! Thanks for sharing!
Your steel's rusting? That's crazy, man. Have youu ever tried DMTD?
From my Employment Working for the Navy in electronics I would suggest to Try Dow Corning®3140 RTV MIL-A-46146 specifications, Coating is for electronics because it doesn't have acetic acid (which would damage electrical parts and metals). For your gasket sealant. In military electronics it is a mil spec requirement for sealing (among other sealants). We used several types Deoxit for rotary switches, potentiometer's, electrical plugs and sockets. They would clean and protect the above mentioned parts.
In another vein of thought, another corrosive breakdown chemical that was heavily relied upon for corroded nuts and bolts on electronic equipment was a brand called Kriol, can you give an explanation of how that works. As a sidelight when we couldn't get frozen corroded parts to release, we had an electrical apparatus in the machine shop called Electric Discharge Machining (EDM) Process that would remove them without damage. One reason I mentioned all of this is, Remember the Navy works in a salt environment year round.
Chloride is also a pitting agent, it binds to the Fe on the surface, in essence removing an Fe-Fe bond and creating an Fe-Cl bond, this reduces the cohesion making it easier for the Fe to leave the surface
3 minutes in, already mindblown📖🖊👌
If you aren't bored of this subject yet, how about taking a look at Volatile corrosion inhibitors?
W Bailey there is vapor tarnish prévention product to protect silverware it come as an impregnated paper , you wrap the silverware in this special impregnated paper and it does not tarnish .
@carl lavertu There is a similar product used to wrap machined steel parts and tools, and I've even seen some plastic storage boxes that claim to inhibit corrosion of the contents. One brand that comes to mind was Zerust (IIRC).
Kevin Martin I sleep in one these. It prevents me from aging :-)
How hydrophobic are those coatings? Are you able to do a contact angle test with some DI water?
^^^^ Please!!
Thank you for making all of this information free to us! I absolutely love your amazing projects and every upload is incredible. I have learned so much from these videos
14:51 is it possible that the samples being electrically connected to each other would interfere with the experiment? Coud the worse-protected samples act as a sacrificial anode for the better-protected ones, biasing the experiment in favour of the better protected ones?
the electrons wont go to the zink, they come from the zink, so that the iron doesnt have to give up an electron
Hey there--Want to help us with a project? In iPhone repair land, we would love to know the nuts and bolts of iPhone water damage. What are the similarities and differences of the oxidation of iron here compared to the oxidation of metals inside an iPhone? We can see that electricity plus toilet water creates instant "corrosion" on the iPhone logic board. What is the green stuff, the white stuff, and the chemistry of the oxidation that appears on the positive sides of ceramic capacitors? We know that rice is useless and in practice is not meaningfully hygroscopic. But what about bona fide dessicants--is a dessicant better than opening your phone and putting it in front of a fan? What about corrosive inhibitors for something like an iPhone logic board as a preventative, at least for the exposed spots where water tends to go---snake oil, or??? We would love to collaborate if you want to explore some iPhone water damage topics.
Salt has one more special property. Chloride ions are quite agressive against any passivation layer and are capable of creating small spots with pH much lower than surroundings. Additionally chloride ions may complexe metal ions, hindering build up of tight rust layer, which would slow down the corrosion. Especially it shows its agressiveness against stainless steel (pitting) and aluminium, but also helps with corrosion of plain steel.
...and sales of Deoxit suddenly exploded. (I wasn't aware of it but I'll buy a bottle now.) Another good video.
It's fantastic stuff. Great for cleaning dirty contacts in electrical equipment. Dirty pots and jacks in music instruments/amps/radios/etc.
Most people working on guitars are aware of it to protect potentiometers.
There are different ones depending where they're used and it's all pretty pricy.
Extremely intriguing! Next chemical: "NeverWet" =D
He Ka just like Ben Shapiros wife
4:30 in "diazole" "ole" part mean 5 membered ring containing some atoms that not carbon, "az" mean that atoms is nitrogen and "di" mean that it two of it
I wished science was interesting in school. I'm 38 now and feel I got far more from this episode than any class in school.
You're watching a 23 minute culmination of dozens of hours of work. So if a typical class is 40 hours long (15 weeks, 2x/week of 1.25 hour classes) you'd spend that entire class learning one topic.
@Andrew Delashaw Excellent observation! Thank you for sharing this.
Great video! I think Castrol's claim "Clinging molecules protect from the start" is about minimising engine wear at start-up (before the lubrication system has a chance to pump oil around the engine) rather than anything to do with corrosion.
I love this channel. Where else will you find a machinist's vise sitting on a bench next to test tubes and electronics
at AvEs
and ElementalMaker
and Cody's Lab
In order to reduce the smell during the reaction you can try to use a bleach solution to scrub thiols instead of plain water. Thank you for the video!
Great timing! I've been reading about just this subject lately.
X
That´s it, you´ve thrown down the gauntlet - shoot out required now!!! ACF 50 to begin with please :)
Can you do a similar episode on the anti corrosion paste that prevents dissimilar metals from redoxing. The green past inside the purple wire nuts that allow you to splice copper wires with aluminum wires in older construction.
Fantastic video! Thank you so much for sharing ALL you HARD work. I absolutely love your work. Fred Ontario, NY
The best youtube channel in the world.
By far
So many wonderful cogent chemical explainations! Thank you!
Remember always wear protection when putting someone elses molecules in your engine 😄
Btw that hot air station can catch on fire while sitting in a standby mode. Beware!
and that's where the 40 in wd40 comes from 😁Fantastic vid as always 👍
I'd love to see you investigate the CRC parts washer system
"put it into a tub of salt water that I mixed up until it tasted like sea water" 😆
this is really funny coming from Ben who's usually super-scientific :D
I thought that was funny too.
Especially since Nighthawkinlight happened to mention that he has the formula for see water in his most recent video. 🤪
Very cool analysis and explanation!
I would love to hear more regarding chemicals that stop rust that has already formed (like naval jelly) - how they work and how that affects the choice of which one to use.
Lighting a crackpipe in the thumbnail
That's exactly what it looks like! Haha.
Crack pipe...for science!
Meth pipe, crack pipes are just tubes with a bit of brillow inside.
@LittleRainGames Thanks, it's always nice to have a professional crack head in the comments to explain things.
This is great. I was also wondering how well your additive would resist the effects of the combustion in an engine.
Which includes acetic acid, thanks to partial oxidation of ethanol in the modern "gasoline". Seems particularly a problem for cold starts and short runs.
"Eventually I found this old patent for a corrosion inhibitor, and it had this interesting line in there that said the reaction product were this dark read viscus liquid, right as this [Deoxit] were sitting on the bench, and I thought, oh, really..."
These types of experiences are wonderful, even if they turn out to be partly incorrect in the end. It strives forth creativity and new ideas, not to mention a better understanding of the whole.
Also, this is a well made video about rust inhibitors and has enlightened me and hopefully others on the subject.
Though, in regards to the sacrificial anode, to my knowledge, it protects the metal of interest by oxidizing itself, meaning that it is the metal giving off the electrons, instead of the base metal. (Though, I might not recall correctly, corrosion isn't my field...)
That was great!, I'd love to see video about soluble oils: commonly available "oil in water" emulsions for machining use.
Great stuff,
how well has the ultrasonic fogger held up to the salt water environment?
It seems like a good cheap way to do corrosion tests if it lasts
Would you please do a video on graphene chemical vapor deposition?
Great illustration. 👍💯✌
Thank you for this informative and useful video. One aspect of having a lathe and/or milling machine is the tooling necessary to use them. Most of that tooling isn't cheap and will have much bare metal just waiting to be corroded. An application of an oil film is often not desirable, especially for machine tapers which rely on a bare metal to metal contact to perform correctly. To protect those surfaces I use a VCI (vapor-phase corrosion inhibitor) paper wherever possible. Such papers (Armor Wrap 30G for example) work best in a relatively dry and enclosed environment (such as in a closed plastic or metal container). Since I've been using VCI paper (about two years now) I have yet to see any corrosion on protected tooling. Would be interesting to see a scientifically valid test of such papers.
NileRed - 2019-06-16
Really cool stuff! I had absolutely no idea how those corrosion inhibitors worked.
julian - 2019-07-02
Why does the sulphur stick to the metal ?
Rusdani Budi Wicaksono - 2019-07-14
@julian Same reason oxygen and water can stick to metal; their atom can easily 'capture' metal's more wayward metal's electron.
...Or something like that. There's more sophisticated explanation, but at this moment that's all I can remember from my HS Chemistry. 😅😅
Oscar Caetano - 2019-07-26
i was just thinking "put together nilered and ben krasnow on a lab," and then i find your comment! you two are awesome.