Big Joel - 2018-02-09
Audible free trial: http://www.audibletrial.com/BigJoel Hey everybody, in this video, I talk about Disney's 1942 film, Bambi. The movie is obsessed with nature. It uses both its characters and its animation to send one clear message: "nature is important and great." In this video, I look closely at Bambi to figure what, exactly the film means by the word "nature," and I explore what it's trying to say through its depiction.
I loved watching Bambi when I was too little to understand a lot of diologue. It had beautiful music, captivating atmosphere, and lovable characters. As an artist, I continue to admire this film. It’s one of Walt Disney’s best works of art.
Big Joel Bambi is a awesome film
@Big Joel
For me its this and dambo
Bambi is my favourite Disney movie because of it's music and glorious depiction of nature.
It is beautiful! The new "realistic" Disney films can never be that artistic sadly.
Masterpiece of masterpieces
Also, Disney was super-committed to showing nature in all its glory for many decades to come. Their representation of nature was often staged (poor, poor lemmings) but it was almost a mission of Disney to show nature in film form as much as possible. Not in animation to this extent before or after Bambi, but certainly in documentary style.
their books got this too
Every time I think about what happened to those poor lemmings, I bawl my eyes out
Walt and his studio spent an uncountable number of man hours studying the movement of all kinds of forest animals for this movie. They paid great attention to the detail behind those water drops and the way the wind moved. He even developed a whole new camera for filming the different layers of the forest. Walt wanted to show off his artistic and story-telling skills with Bambi, that's for sure, but there was obviously more to it.
The script for Bambi was super thin because there were hardly any spoken words. About 1000, give or take, if I remember right. This placed the entire movie on pure performance. Walt challenged himself on creating characters that connected to the audience so much the viewers would cry when it was time for Bambi's mother to die or fear for Bambi's life in the fire.
To me the story itself is about life. How it continues on despite the death and destruction that occur. It rebuilds itself because that's the natural order of things. Of course, it is also about the love and care we need to take regarding the natural world. And your idea of the 1940 family status is plausible, though I believe it to be a retrospective outlook. I hardly think that's what Disney was initially thinking when he decided to adapt this movie.
What stands out to us looking at it from our time, like the "family values" may have been so "natural" or given to the creators at that time that they maybe didn't even reflect on i? I'm not sure as I didn't live then. If they felt family values were threatened so they wanted to enforce them or if they were just taken for granted?
@Frida i dont think its a matter of whether they felt threatened about the nuclear family. Like op said, the nuclear family is a retroactive idea that was coined much later on.
Walt knew what he was doing when he decided to make a distant father figure, and he knew that that kind of relationship would be relatable to the young audience he was making this film for.
Here I would defend joel's analysis, because even if hes using terminology that is only retroactive, its still a valid interpretation of the decisions that the studio decided to make in its production.
@Andres Abanto Enns I didn't live then so hard to know... some culture reflects the time and some may want to shape the future, and in that case maybe reflect the IDEAL of the time. Especially children's culture I guess.
I have no idea how you haven't gotten massive traction yet. This is quality content, man.
Right?! RIGHT?! I'm embarrassed I didn't find him sooner! His work reminds me a lot of Bobby Burns back when he did video essays.
He will. You can feel it growing.
Getting there
how many subs did he have when this comment was made? hi from 2 years in the future
started from the bottom now we here 🍾
I'd never really considered how the year played into this film, but once you pointed it out—especially with the mother-child family relationship—it's unmistakable. I only saw Bambi a few times growing up, but your video caused me to notice the extreme and profound attention to detail in the animation, and this now reminds me of some of studio Ghibli's films from the 80's and 90's which I enjoy partially because of their specificity. I'll have to re-watch Bambi soon with a new perspective. Good work!
First cousin incest moral panic is funny to me in a video that references the Lion King - a movie that elegantly glosses over the fact that Simba and Nala are most likely half-siblings.
Incestious relationships are not that much of a big deal in the animal kingdom (or old egypt for that matter...) anyways, but nevertheless it would have been the real life reason Simba would have been forced to leave his Pride.
The lionesses stay toghether, but young lions are forced into the wild on their own until they are strong enough to take over a diffrent pride.
Some build little 'teenager gangs' or even lifelong attachments to other lions during that time, leading to dual headed prides sometimes.
And just to end this comment on a cheerey note, after having ousted or killed the former pride leader the new lion will kill all of the cubs in the pride, so that the lionesses become fertile faster again. They will even calculate back and kill cubs that are born shortly after their arrival as they reconize them as not their own. Mufasa presumably had a lot of 'circle of life' speeches prepared to help him sleep at night.....
I saw the reference to the first cousin thing as maybe a slight jab at all the many many videos covering the same "messed up things you didn't notice about Disney". Because clearly incest isn't a taboo in the animal kingdom and marrying your cousin wasn't a big deal years ago. Whether it was a funny jab or not, it was interesting either way.
Here’s another fun animal fact on the flip side, deer mothers will brutally attack their sons once they become juvenile and chase them off instinctually to prevent incest. The deer son doesn’t even have to do anything it’s all just chemicals and nature—and again the females will stay together
"a movie that elegantly glosses over the fact that Simba and Nala are most likely half-siblings"
Disney has decided to refute this by having Nala's father be referenced in the Lion Guard...20+ years later. Staff were concerned about the incest question though at least for The Lion King 2 thats why Kovu is constantly said to NOT be Scar's son. As a kid it always seemed so weird they kept stressing this point but when I grew up I finally saw why lol.
@Apollo Justice I know it's two years later, but: "first cousin marriages are perfectly fine in Europe, Canada, Mexico and other countries"? I can't speak for Canada and Mexico (or all the other "countries" in Europe) but in my two countries in the continent Europe cousin marriage is not normal at all.
@Clara Mavila Hi there, I had admittedly totally forgotten about this comment, lol.
I didn’t mean to imply that it’s something that is a super common occurrence (I don’t think I personally know anyone who is married to their first cousin) and I think it was much more common years back, but it IS legal in basically all of Europe, whereas in the US it is illegal in most states.
As a result, it’s usually not really seen as super gross or wrong, over here. The reaction to it, at least where I‘m at, is much more akin to: ‚Ok, I guess‘ with a shrug. That‘s all I was trying to convey.
But, Europe is big and divers, so it might be culturally different for you.
In the original Felix Salten's novel, there is a theological component about what nature is, changing through the seasons in an endless cycle. In the forest, Man is always referred to as "He" and it is believed He takes the lives of animals because perhaps he provides life. Believing this, Gobo, a friend of Bambi, happily approaches a hunter thinking he will not hurt him, despite Bambi's warnings to not approach him. Of course, he is shot dead, as Bambi's mother before him. After the fire, the animals find the burned corpse of the hunter, realizing that he´s not the one who gives or takes life, but someone beyond him and all of them. This part of the novel was going to be in the movie, but animators told Disney they could not draw a corpse, and Disney had to accept it.
I think Disney's vision is closer to Salten's orignial - both fought in World War I - and I think even more than if the public related it to the American world of the 1940s was for a purely circumstantial reason. Gone With the Wind, the most successful film in the history of cinema, also told the story of a happy world destroyed by war, and about a protagonist surviving to it. On the other hand, Bambi didn't cover its production budget, and Disney was forced to do something as different as Saludos Amigos the same year, and propaganda and musical films the years after, to survive a long crisis, until Cinderella in 1950. But Bambi transcends time; today's hunters hates it, the death of Bambi's mother continue traumatizing children, from its time to this days. Manga´s God Osamu Tezuka saw it more than 80 times, and soviet filmmaker Eisenstein praised it. It's not a small thing.
Spectator58, No, you’re right, the Disney fans really do push it more than the company itself. Even the fans, like Toon, that think they’re smart, but push it as well.
It’s not the merchandise, it’s that even Walt was all being whimsical either way(his methods of “screwball joints” lead to all this). So it’s just Disney. Nothing can keep Disney from being like this.
They really have limits when it comes to having guts.
Gobo only approached the hunter because he was taken care of by people. He had become unafraid, tamed in a way.
I think of Disney’s cutesy aspects as part of their style in the same way manner of Fleischer’s surreal animations, Tex Avery’s exaggerated comedy(influenced Warner Bros subsequent directors as well), it’s just part of the package.
I won’t deny that the cutesy aspects can be a bit exaggerated at times. But I think it also creates some good contrasts when you have sinister villains and darker moments alongside cutesy characters. I assume Animation principles were still developing in various ways and Disney wanted to have appealing characters (whether they appeal to everyone depends on the person).
struwelpet I thought Gobo didn’t die. I haven’t read the book in a few years, but I think he was wounded, and one of the hunters brought it home to his family for it to recover. When he returned to the forest, reunited with his family and told them about his exploits with the humans, they are super shocked. Nature and the stimuli around it can be very mysterious and unpredictable. Sometimes, humans can be an ally, but for the rest, it is one of its greatest enemies. It really depends on how tolerant they are, or if they have the mind and thoughtfulness to see themselves through the eyes of other living things.
Excellent analysis Joel, as always! Before now, I hadn’t really thought about Bambi’s lack of focus on character. However, now that I think about it, it’s amazing that the film is able to convey so much emotion, despite the fact that it doesn’t have much of a story, and doesn’t really delve into how the characters feel about everything. The film is, at times, heart-warming, romantic, terrifying, and desperately sad. As a child, it certainly influenced my view on hunting, and nature. I found the scene with the hunters to be almost traumatic.
As far as the animation goes, it also seems different from other Disney films, even ones from the same period. It looks like they’ve used watercolours in the background. Do you know if this is the case? The animation helps to lend the film an ethereal, detached quality...in fact, it’s as if the animation mirrors the script!
Anyway, thanks again, for yet another seriously underrated video! You’ve, once again, helped me to see something familiar in a totally new way.
My problem with the "nuclear family " argument is that people are forgetting one thing: the characters are animals. Male deer don't take an active role in caring for their young while female deer will live together in large herds with their offspring, and in the case of females, does will live with their own daughters forever while never seeking out their sons. Bambi's father being distant and his mother being loving is a humanized model of nature. "Bambi" challenges its viewer (and in the case of the book its reader) to look through the eyes of an animal, but the modern viewer projects human family dynamics onto it.
I'm going to suggest something crazy, but if you're interested in seeing how the family dynamics of "Bambi" could have played out differently, I'd actually watch the direct to DVD sequel they made (it's actually a midquel but it's titled like a sequel). It takes place between the mother's death and Bambi's adulthood, showing his relationship with his father. It shows how family is not such a rigid concept whether you take the "see through the animals" approach or "see humans in the animals" approach.
(Though it copies a lot of scenes from the original and doesn't understand that the original was more about visual storytelling than dialog and characters... so it doesn't shut up)
Hmm I think this is a really interesting comment. If Bambi wanted to be a perfect reflection of the way nature actually functioned, you're right, Bambi's dad would be distant. But I guess I would ask you the question: Why does Bambi seem to monogamously date Faline? Deer in nature are deeply polygamous, often taking multiple partners in a single mating season. Why did they exclude this aspect of deer life and not the distant father aspect? I argue that it's because deer being polygamous would feel icky and foreign and deer fathers being absent would be familiar and digestible.
Selective animal behavior and nature? Don't forget that the monogamous behavior is also part of the book, which is more accurate about the brutality of nature. Said book shows a detachment Bambi feels toward his mate; he becomes distant from Faline for no apparent reason unless you think, "Oh, mating season is over." In the end Bambi sees their two fawns, but doesn't seem to fully grasp that they're his children, or he just doesn't care. (I've never read the sequel "Bambi's Children." I've heard it's bad)
Thumper is also problematic. On one hand he has a lot of siblings and children, just as rabbits produce children in large litters. But on the other hand he also ages as slowly as Bambi does and doesn't seem to live in a warren. Also, during the winter the film shows that some animals hibernate while others don't (ironically skunks don't hibernate). An interesting detail that doesn't really go anywhere, but helps establish that nature is different from our society. Humans don't hibernate in winter. We adapt to winter and don't have to worry about going hungry, as Bambi and his mother try desperately to look for food before… mommy killing scene.
Both films in general though have a public reputation with some people seen it as just a cutesy colorful baby animals franchise. But the adult Bambi being a badass would be a transition to all that by fighting(rapist stag Ronno and hunting dogs) and walking off with gunshot wounds.
I think an issue is that while Bambi tries to be an art/nature piece primarily, making enjoyable characters is just intrinsic to Disney's usual film making. It just wouldn't be them without the touch of whimsy and sentimentality. Even throughout the making of the film, Walt insisted Bambi was an 'actor' and many creative methods for scene and character building were through relating them to humans (eg. the ice skating scene). Thumper is probably the most blatant contradiction, since he was initially a more minor character that the creative team grew more and more attached to, and since the film, Disney have been trying for decades to play on his star appeal with merchandise, comics, books, and even a planned movie and TV series. I could assume the leash from the film's format prevented that fully taking off however, since Thumper still didn't have as much personality to play off of for whole stories compared to say, Timon and Pumbaa or Tigger.
Bambi 2 (that was incidentally made by a few of the Lion King's creative team) sort of cuts the formalities and gives everyone a human personality and drive, since by the point in time it was made all Disney's works were by reflex character pieces. What is interesting is that, despite a lot of contemporary scenes and dialogue, there are several parts that really try to mimic the original, if superficially. It's a film that definitely understands the ethics of classic Disney storytelling but not quite the original Bambi's storytelling (though since this wasn't completely consistent to begin with, one could argue there's still some successful connecting moments, hell a lot of Bambi 2's premise lampshades how the first broke its own rules).
Probably the most optimistic way to view it is less as the series trying and not quite managing to be a nature piece, and more the same story cleverly done through different storytelling approaches. Where Bambi (1) is a character perspective piece, Bambi 2 is a character study piece.
@Sinister Sweet given that the Bambi film takes place in North America (with Bambi being a mule deer rather than a roe like in the book), Thumper would almost certainly be a cottontail rabbit. Unlike European rabbits, cottontails don't have warrens (they don't even dig, relying on brush and abandoned burrows for shelter), and are solitary.
This is my favorite Disney movie, and loved the novel as a kid. It made me sad, because the novel made it even more apparent about how humans disrupt their natural lives.
They even wrote about leaves falling and not understanding why and where they went. And being scared of the unknown. Made me have deep little kid thoughts lol
I always looked at Bambi more as a coming of age story- you know , idealized childhood, realizing the world is not as simple/loving as you thought it was, and eventually taking your rightful place in the world. I did not stop to reflect on how it does this differently from Lion King, though. I am grateful for your review because it makes me rethink what I took as a given.
There's an interesting thing abt the early movies that you've honed in on which is that Disney's early movies cribbed a lot from Romantic era fairytales (or the re-creation of those fairy tales) which are stories which tried to recreate the feelings of the aristocratic era, an era where lack of agency is a given. Snow White and Bambi are both stories where characters aren't the protagonists of their own lives, and the stories see that as kinda good. That could never be done in our post-modern era
1) I want to see more videos from this channel on early Disney films. This and the Snow White one are both excellent. 2) I think it'd be super interesting to compare/contrast Bambi to Princess Mononoke. Both are very much about nature, and whether or how it can be changed.
I'm reminded of Nostalgia Critic's take on the moment right after the mom's death. Even if his show is meant to be funny, his message was still that this moment was somehow a failure on the movie's part to follow a more rigid rule on what's "good" or "correct".
For personal enrichment I prefer your style of "okay they did that thing, what model of analysis would extract the most meaning out of it?"
I could more or less copy+paste this on your The Room video. To regurgitate from corny orientalism and that one Cowboy Bebop episode, your analysis is like water that fits around its object.
I really enjoyed this, another great video of yours.
You spoke of other Disney movies focusing on nature earlier? I'd say that Brother Bear, Pocahontas & The Fox & The Hound also discusses the importance of nature.
In Kipling's books the law of the jungle is the main theme and the law of the jungle is sacred. It can however be destroyed by the red flower(fire) by forces of man.
i love the fact that you don't downplay the deer puns at the beginning, i wish more people would do that and actually own up to it like you did.
Bambi is still my favorite disney film, probably because it is so unlike the others. It's not about good and evil, angst or a once in a lifetime romance. It's about the passage of time, the changing of seasons and heart. As a child you can watch it for the colorful and happy parts, but as I've gotten older I appreciate the artistry and grace with which the movie depicts and embraces nature and change.
It's interesting to think about the context the artists were creating in, and how that subconscious (or conscious) nostalgia and representation of American life leave their fingerprint on Bambi. You did a good job putting into words some things I hadn't considered before.
I think it's interesting to note that (if i'm not mistaken) the reason they chose not to show the Hunter is because they didn't want to outright vilify him. So the Hunter's moral standing was intentionally ambiguous.
This was SO GOOD! I love your essays so much, I'm SHOOK
aww thanks so much!
Big Joel I didn't think it was a nature film
I just found you today and I finally feel like I have found "my people", no longer will I be alone in analyzing the rhetoric of shows that I find nostalgic as hell. Thank you!
I never noticed how painfully idealized Bambi's version of nature is. In Bambi nature is this heavenly place were the animals play, everyones friends and they never get eaten. It assumes me because I like animal documentaries and the running theme in those are normally: "life's a bitch and nature is the biggest bitch of all". Haha, Bambi should have been natures version of a hot pocket.
I love your dry humor and the way you phrase your points! ^^
Bambi will always be a favorite film of mine. The music, the art, the almost documentary style following of one character. Also, Bambi 2 was awesome and made me really appreciate Bambi’s father.
You've really put a lot of thought into this. For me, it's always been about activism, and protecting our natural world.
8:24 Ah! There it is! I was wondering when you were going to point out how distant Bambi's father is and explain why. Literally the movie starts by building up to this moment where it shows that all this time Bambi's father had been watching his son's birth from a far and it says to the audience: this is the perfect family.
I am absolutely in love with your analysis of these videos! So in depth and such attention to detail and truly discovering the true meaning behind them. Would love to see you do more of these old disney movies!!
Those messages you came up with at the end are all great<3
Personally, I like to also add, with whichever meaning one gets from it, a key thing being presented is that "life goes on"~
There can be loss, there can be threats, there can be times of starvation, there can be fires that nearly wipe it all out, but from beneath the ashes, life can and will keep going
what a fantastic essay, you really brought out aspects of this movie that I've never considered in a compelling and convincing way. I've just discovered your videos, and I'm very, VERY impressed with your thoughtful, well-developed, and in-depth analysis. Your language conveys abstract thought with enough visual and conceptual evidence to back it up. Fantastic work, I look forward to watching all of your video library and keeping up with your future work.
Thank you!
Dude, your videos are brilliant
Bambi is one of my all time favorite animated Disney movies, along with Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty. The animation and music are so heavenly and beautiful, they actually make me cry.
I think this is one of my all-time favorite video essays. You really hit the nail on the head here!
I adore how you structure your videos: to display an underlying message in a popular movie with evidence and structure without personal attachment. Even in other video essays, the message or themes are muddied by opinion. When you described how Bambi celebrates the nuclear family of the 1940's and nature's perfection, you don't state whether these two ideas are "good" or "bad." You did the same thing in the last video of yours i watched: A Close Look at The Lorax. I was surprised at the messages, too, and I'm glad other people are picking up on this.
Loved your analysis! Do you have any recommendations on similar animated films with a nature focus from this era? I already know of The Old Mill
The scene were the quail gets shot was literally the only thing I could remember from the movie up till like... today. I stg that was the strongest emotional impact a movie has ever had on me lmao.
That scene with the birds is honestly scarier and more disturbing than the scene where the mom dies, in my opinion. Great video! Your work is very insightful; I think you might have made a subscriber out of me!
I love your narration style, its very easy to understand and everything you say makes a lot of sense
I really like this idea of looking at Classic Disney films, this and the Snow White video were just lovely. Please do more!
i love the felix salten book- especially the gorgeous chapter about the two leaves falling in the autumn. Great video- love how you related the themes to the time- i had never thought about how a young man growing up in the 40s would have related to this- makes so much sense!
I beg you to do one of these on Sleeping Beauty. It's my favorite Disney film (tied with Fantasia), and I think it'd be interesting to compare it to Snow White: In a span of 21 years, what changed in Disney's depiction of roles in the genre?
I always had an idea to write an essay about how the movie depicts the relationship Aurora has with the plot and how the music in the movie foreshadows later events. Whatever you want to explore in it though I would be thrilled to see.
that's beautiful!
i'm sure people loved it in the 40s. exactly what they needed.
still what we need today. i feel like bambi is really simple and lovely.
I love video essays. Yours was awesome, thank you for providing me a new perspective into this classic movie
Is it strange that this film never made me feel sad as a child? It really didn't bother me when Bambis mom died, I felt too distant from her. On the other hand, in the fox and the hound, when the old lady leaves Todd alone in a forest and sings to him I cry every time (even now). I never understood why people found Bambi to be so sad. Great video btw
This was one of the first movies I ever saw. I remember being so so scared when the mother was about to die and having to close my eyes :(
Excellent analysis of this beautiful film!
Honestly, I'd be so interested in seeing how you work through your ideas. I mean, it applies to all of your videos, but especially here because- as you mention several times-- this is an inherently barren topic, or movie, to talk about. There is not a lot of moving parts to play around with. As such, I think it really takes some creative thinking to narrow down on that.
Okay I just subscribed because I really love your videos. They give me a different perspective of the Disney movies and I love the amount of thought put into these videos.
I really appreciate your videos buddy! Easily digestible, good content, and you don't push ideas. I really appreciate that you don't force your views on the content or see it through a particular lens.
This video is great , once i was watching it with a friend and she asked me why i repeat bambi so much if its kinda boring, and i couldn't explain her what you said on the video. Which sums it perfectly.
(I would suggest you a better thumbnail to attract more people, cause the video is very good)
thanks, and thanks for the advice. Anything specific you think I should change about them?
Maybe change the solid color background, to something more eyecatching, some blured background of the movie, behind the character and the title or something like that :)
Hmm yeah, I'll definitely consider that. Thank you!
This is some wonderful content, I love your truthfulness and seeming optimism of what the film is trying to say. I really enjoy it. And by the way, I recommend you make something about the last Jedi, you’ll rocket to stardom. Something from what I see you deserve. Live the dream!
eartianfizz - 2018-02-11
I also never looked at Bambi as a 'happy animals ' movie because the mother's death overtakes all of that I suppose in the mind of a child. That and the relationship with the father was strained , so the movie always had this sad tinge to it for me.
ACSpectator - 2018-10-21
That’s even exactly why people make fun of Bambi for being “cute little mama’s boy”. There was never a time when Disney didn’t stop doing stuff that earned it its said reputation.
Rhiannon Oliver - 2019-01-25
Relationship with his father is strained. Like mine with my father loool 😂
βωρδάρτ - 2019-07-08
I Don't know… Bambi's mom dies by the end of act 2. it does overtake the remaining of the movie, but not bambi's childhood, which I remember as "happy animals the movie". It's cute, it's artistic, it's beautifully animated, it's well-scored, it's plotless, and it's quite nostalgic.
I Don't really remember the end however.
SickBoy - 2020-05-31
For me, it wasn’t really sad, but kind of dark and creepy.
Vincent Gonzalez - 2021-09-05
@SickBoy all the plants bambi ate was from thousands of dead deer
Like the lion kind parable