> chemistry > explosifs > bismuth-perchloric-acid-mysterious-metal-m-chemistry-explosions-fire

Bismuth & Perchloric Acid: Mysterious Metal M chemistry

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-02

Why does bismuth do that thing? You know, the thing. Why is that? We investigate. Subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplosionsAndFire/
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Paper mentioned in the video: "The Explosive Reaction of Bismuth with Perchloric Acid" 1935 https://doi.org/10.1021/ja01308a008
I hope this counts towards their Altmetric score. Currently only 157 paper reads in 85 years, that's less than 2 a year, this is hot topical content absolutely.

Thanks so much to all my Patreons for the support, which recently allowed me to pickup the new high-speed camera. I feel it was a little under-used this video, but it's going to bring so much for each new video from now and I can't wait. Here's names of some cool people, in pairs, because you look cute together:

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The Thought Emporium - 2021-01-03

bismuth is lead for people who don't have a death wish. truer words have never been said.

Jon Dresser - 2021-12-19

I really lolled at this statement.

Sophia Astatine - 2022-01-02

@E Van Lead is Bismuth for people that think too much.

Nathan L - 2022-01-09

Would love to see you figure this mystery out!

Mad Scientific - 2022-03-09

Ugh more lead paranoia

Magus Perdé - 2022-10-13

@AKGaming when it comes to being easier to eat indium is unbeatable. Its litteral metal gum

NileRed - 2021-01-04

Thank you for the cameo. Also, I have the same ball mill!

Ilyá - 2022-01-01

Not really a hard hitting video if you don't use a sledgehammer.

There is a price to everything - 2022-01-11

Cox-1 and 2 are cyclooxygenase an enzyme creating in inflammation responses which creates prostaglandins which are the source of inflammaton

Handle On A Fridge - 2022-04-08

SOLAR STILL

BeardedDragon886 - 2022-08-13

Yay Nile Red made a positive comment on this channel confirming that this channel isn't a bad channel. Let's get it to 1 mil subs.

scrappy doo - 2022-08-29

Good ol' Mr Red lol

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-02

I wonder if the acronym PEN-15 is still available

F - 2022-08-04

CUM-69

Aron Ásmundur Jónasson - 2022-08-20

I hope COX-69 is available, because if someday I discover an explosive that's definitely how I'm going to name it

membola - 2022-09-04

@Red wasnt it coreium because it came from the core of the reactor?

Micah Haley - 2022-09-26

It's a very exclusive club.

The Aussie Waffle - 2022-10-15

:D

Murzac - 2021-11-13

Actually, FOX-7 is not a completely meaningless acronym! The explosive was developed by the Swedish Defence Research Agency, which in Swedish holds the acronym FOI. They just took that, replaced the I with an X because it's an explosive and that's how you get FOX. The 7 as far as I can tell is completely arbitrary though.

Gideon Meimers - 2022-08-21

7 is the number of ppl died in the explosion before it was published..

Milokiss82 - 2022-09-03

@Zilog ew, closed race.

also ew, organics.

Zilog - 2022-09-03

@Milokiss82 what? protogens aren't closed. that's primogens. also idc of its closed or not regardless. they still make me happy and ill do whatever the fuk i want with my protogen

Farm 24 - 2022-10-19

@Zilog proot

Zilog - 2022-10-19

@Farm 24 Beep!

pyromen321 - 2021-01-03

“because your body is a moron” sums up 99% of health issues

One salty Boi - 2021-05-17

Fr

David R - 2021-06-27

This statement explains carbon monoxide poisoning at the cellular level.

Younes Layachi - 2022-01-14

@David R (is there any other form of poisoning other than at cellular level)

Noah - 2022-01-22

@Younes Layachi knife poisoning isn't localized at the cellular level

Ginger McGingin - 2022-08-07

@Younes Layachi

Radiation poisoning happens at the atomic level

SlipSpectrum - 2021-11-13

In fireworks, we make a type of “crackle” using bismuth trioxide, magnalium and nitrocellulose lacquer. It kind of sounds audibly like the reaction with bismuth and perchloric acid.

Kay Dot - 2021-01-02

"Bismith is just gay lead"
-Internet Australian Man

Robert Gordon - 2021-04-23

@Armory check out taofladermaus. They shoot all sorts of cool ammo, including bismuth slugs

xenofurmi - 2021-12-13

Was that said? I have to watch again... hilarious.

Commander Krieg - 2022-01-31

The incredibly dense part of that joke was spicy

Aron Ásmundur Jónasson - 2022-08-20

@Edward Gentle smut but H

Edward Gentle - 2022-08-20

@Aron Ásmundur Jónasson aaaah right

Jude P - 2021-01-02

I have never heard a truer statement than bismuth is "lead for people who fear death"

Charles Lambert - 2021-01-03

gallium is mercury for clean-shaven non-Utahans

Sheep Ketchup - 2021-02-04

@Laird Cummings is there any shame in using the saying that other people created to begin with?

Laird Cummings - 2021-02-04

@Sheep Ketchup no.
Or most of us wouldn't be able to say, or invent, anything. Words and phrases and concepts are pretty much infinite use.
Just don't claim someone else's original thought as your own.

Hidden Name - 2021-12-31

@acepilot1 Organogermaniun is pretty bad though. It will kill you in strange ways

Mad Scientific - 2022-03-09

If only it made sense. Lead is pfft. Quit with the scare tactics. Some of us interact with it daily, have for years, and probably will for many to come... Still just fine 🙄

Sebastian - 2021-01-02

This went from a chemistry video to a rant about naming compounds. This is the content i'm subscribed for

AstoundingYeti - 2021-01-02

Man, if I had a nickle for every time I torched some perchlorate off bismuth metal I'd have two nickels. That's not a lot but its weird that it happened twice.

jogandsp - 2022-05-04

Ok, Dr. Doofenshmirtz

Ripudaman Sharma - 2021-01-02

Dude, this channel is exactly what a chemistry nerd wants- Insanity.

William S. Godfrey - 2021-01-02

I'm not a chemist. Haven't even taken a chemistry class in 20 years. Still love these videos. This guy is hilarious. Keep it up.

ElementalMaker - 2021-01-02

Man I'm so intrigued at what the hell it is! Awesome video and I'm so jealous of that high speed camera! That's beyond badass!

ElementalMaker - 2021-01-04

@Tech Obsessed let's hope not!

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-04

"When" 😳😳😳

Greg greg - 2021-01-05

@Explosions&Fire lol.. no if, just when...hahaha.....

excited box - 2021-01-17

You and the other youtubers (Nile Red and Thought Emporium) in the comments should all fly to Aus and make a super collab video together. You would have Energetics, Rocketry, Polymer and DNA/Material science all in 1 video.

Tower0fHeaven - 2021-01-29

@Explosions&Fire What did you do with Doug's lab?

papanyanz - 2021-01-02

Also, there's a thing called explosive antimony, actually an allotrope of element ONLY ! Perhaps these are somehow related phenomena, hope you will look into it.

Bedlasky Bedla - 2021-04-03

I like mysterious reactions like this. I always have a fun when solving them.

I look at that paper you mentioned. There is a mention, that this compound is formed on bismuth anode during electrolysis of perchloric acid on bismuth electrodes. So technically it should be some high oxidation state of Bi. So I tried to heat mixture of sodium bismuthate and HClO4 on piece of aluminium foil. Lots of fizzing and white smoke, but any explosion.

BlackPawn14 - 2022-08-11

Hmm... maybe the "missing link" is the fact that, if the bismuth is being oxidized, something has to reduce? Which doesn't happen when you mix bismuth oxide with perchloric acid, hence why that failed...
Also, I remember (from one of EX&F's own videos) that the lower oxidation state oxoacids of chlorine (chlorates, chlorites, and hypochlorites) tend to be less stable than perchlorates, in spire of having less oxygen...

Which leads me to an hypothesis: maybe it's some sort of bismuth chlorate or chlorite? Then again, I don't think scientists would've missed that possibility, if that were the case. Probably some sort of complex oxide/salt with lots of oxygen hanging around? (thinking something like bismuth oxychloride, or maybe even a bismuthate with chlorine in a weird anion state, e.g. chloryl).

Then again, I might just be throwing shots at the dark.

TMaxElectronics - 2021-01-01

This video is so relatable, even though I have very little clue about chemistry

Ommy - 2021-01-02

Not as relatable as gloves into grapes soda though

スクロットニメション - 2021-01-02

You goddamn time traveler

Xander Martinez - 2021-01-02

Me too he’s just funny and I like big boom

Darkbreaker97 - 2021-01-02

Call it CBT-1 because it took 85 years to find out what it is

terawattyear - 2021-01-03

Yours is one of the very few channels that can make me spontaneously laugh out loud. Stealth comedy and arcane chemistry. What more could one ask?

Louis Weisz - 2021-01-02

MY FAVORITE CHEMISTRY CHANNEL RETURNS!!!

Big Bore Media - 2021-01-04

This man made me interested in chemistry

Louis Weisz - 2021-01-04

@mefretete fair point

Howard Dewing - 2021-01-04

I subscribed to you yesterday

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-04

You are my favourite chicken slapping content (also just subscribed, super cool channel!)

I_have_an_unreasonably_long_and_verbose_username__ - 2021-11-07

i like how different he is from nilered, and that he hasn't sold out to the algorithm, doesn't ask ppl to slam like buttons, is not hawking patreon, it is still a labour of love and I love this guy.

Dave Perry - 2021-12-29

"[Bismuth] has seen a bit of a revival lately as a bit of a relatable icon element because it forms rainbows all the time, doesn't like to be straight, and is incredibly dense."

Finally, something I relate to.

Anthony Covers - 2022-10-13

Seems like a pretty homophobic joke.

rob morgan - 2021-01-04

Wow! This is interesting. Pretty rare to find a straightforward reaction like this completely unexplored!

Lukas Bolini - 2021-01-02

"bismuth is just gay lead" and I have to disagree. Bismuth is actually Bi

Ceramic Quill - 2021-10-26

@Steampunk Astronaut but neon is a gas

Steampunk Astronaut - 2021-10-26

@Ceramic QuillI read "periodic table" and didn't notice you said metal, hehe. I stand corrected; platinum least reactive metal indeed.

Mina B - 2021-10-30

Can confirm, am bi, am also pathetic, like Bismuth

Lucas Montenegro - 2021-11-05

Isn't it the same?

xenofurmi - 2021-12-13

Ha!

Puc - 2021-01-04

8:11 whenever it propagates, it does so clockwise. Bismuth has magnetic properties. Could you please try the test again on some magnet paper? I wonder if the paper will pick up any magnetic waves or eddy currents around the explosions. I think we may be onto something!

DorsetMushroomHunter - 2022-08-07

I noticed something interesting when dissolving magnets in Nitric. The rotation of particulates in the acid changed when the poles did.

Enriath - 2021-10-09

I'd like to just say a big thank you for not just saying the recording framerate of the high speed footage, but also the playback framerate. So many people just throw out the large number to make it sound impressive, but you really can't tell how that translates into actual slowdown.

htomerif - 2021-01-02

Did you try reacting a large amount of perchloric acid with a large amount of bismuth powder on a hot plate to see what gasses are evolved in the formation of the mystery chemical? No? I CAN'T SEE WHY THAT WOULDN'T BE A GOOD IDEA.

Anton Meshcheryakov - 2021-12-22

The cool thing is, it detonates in a thin film while sitting on top of thick metal, what should cool it, and bordering at air, where it can easily expand and get rid of all the pressure. It means its detonation velocity should be pretty high, or the reaction is very fast, or probably both.

Richy Rich - 2021-11-08

That's an odd looking reaction. It doesn't seem to be taking place between the bismuth and the acid but only around the edges as the acid evaporates. Either the temperature required is higher than the boiling point of the acid or there is likely a third reactant present, perhaps CO2 from the torch or N2 from the atmosphere. The boiling point of perchloric acid is 397F. Try heating the bismuth to 400F and then add a drop of the acid and see what happens.

PersonofNat - 2021-01-12

Fun fact, aspirin is an inhibitor of the COX enzymes. So whenever you eat aspirin, remember it’s affecting your COX

Handy-Cap Outdoors - 2022-01-28

That is a really neat experiment. I've been wanting to try out bismuth as a non lead fishing weight alternative so this explosive would be interesting to look into.

On the high speed camera there almost looked like micro static discharge going across the surface before the heat flash. I wish I had some way handy to put your video in slow motion and skip frame by frame to see if I did see it right.

There are chemical reactions that generate milivolts. And just speculation but if the acid is removing a surface layer and suspending it in the acid droplets perhaps the exchange of free electrons is so great you just need to add a little heat for them to spark. And the micro electrical discharge would be hotter then the torch end igniting the higher flash point acid bismuth mixture on the surface.

Just a thought.

Grim's Bar - 2021-01-03

Does it explode in an inert atmosphere? Try placing in a round bottom flask under differing atmospheres and heat until boom boom. Nitrogen, oxygen, then mixed. Depending on which ones it explodes under it can help identify a transition prior to detonation.

Taylor Williams - 2022-10-20

Your channel is quickly becoming my favorite!!! Thank you for sharing your time with us!!!

ZergrushEddie - 2021-01-04

Wow, how weird: I was JUST wondering why my blowtorch and bismuth + perchloric acid cabinet was prone to explosions!

Adam Fehse - 2021-01-04

My fireworks this year were way louder and more spectacular than they have ever been. Its probably due to better manufacturing of the chemicals you reference. Thats awesome, thank you!

Lagraig O'Moof - 2021-01-02

Is it really an oxidation state? Could it be reacting with the compounds in the heating flame, or even nitrogen from the air? The lack of bubbles in the water test suggests not, but tiny bubbles can look kind of milky (like the precipitate) and there might not be enough to not simply dissolve into solution before rising to the surface.

With the skill (or blind confidence, of which I have neither) and resources, I'd be trying this under different atmospheres using a heated metal spike or carbon rod instead of a flame. Nitrogen and carbon dioxide would be interesting. Chlorine and fluorine would also be interesting, but also maybe a bit scary. Just a bit.

Graham Sutherland - 2021-01-02

It'd be cool to measure the length of the explosive layer and characterise the propagation rate of the explosive.

Lajos Winkler - 2021-01-05

This is interesting. I will try to recreate this experiment, maybe collect more of this material. Have you tried dissolving it in any nonpolar solvent? Maybe gently heat powdered bismuth with this acid for a while, then extract the material...

Michael Free - 2021-01-02

It's reactive on the edges. Does this happen in an inert atmosphere? That would determine whether or not it's yanking something out of the atmosphere as a component; might not be a compound at all but some weird catalyzed matrix of bismuth and a chlorate/perchlorate ion, or it's ganking carbon or hydrogen out of air...

ED: Ah, hear me out. BiOCl forms an Arppe compound when heated above 600C. Could something similar be happening here that's dropping ions in such a manner to produce dichlorine heptoxide on the boundary layer? Or is it just much simpler that some mechanism is taking place at that boundary layer that's dehydrating the perchloric acid...

John McClain - 2021-01-05

This was my first time here, I had a great time, got to say, the man has a point. I've used most of those explosives, in my past military history, and never had any idea why they called them what they did. I have to say, this is the first time I've even heard of this bismuth/perchloric acid mystery, and I've studied explosives and chemistry more than fifty years. This was an awesome display, and a very interesting question that should definitively be answered by someone, soon. Reckon I'll have to check this out, and see. Thanks much for the show!

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-05

Thanks mate, glad you liked it!!

John McClain - 2021-01-05

@Explosions&Fire I had some fun with strong acids and such when I was a teen, but not as much data available, and much harder to get a lot of things, odds and ends. Have to say, I'd hang around with you and play with chemicals, if I had a chance. Semper Fi, John McClain

Neil Boughton - 2021-01-02

It's good to hear Bisthmuth Oxychloride get a mention. It sounds really nasty but I use it for lustre production in ceramic glazes. It is also used as addition to many cosmetics to produce a pearly lustre.

Narobii - 2021-11-22

I love how relatable this channel is, these are the things I come across daily on his channel.

Lorenzo Pagani - 2021-01-02

2021 hobby: look for stupid old papers on questions no one has bothered to follow up, and try and get some streed cred by using modern tech to awnser it.

Ryan Himmelblau - 2021-01-02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXsQAXx_ao0

Gameboygenius - 2021-01-02

As opposed to the 2020 hobby: find obscure old papers with difficult and poorly documented procedures and make a bunch of yellow crap with a 5% yield.

Sophia Astatine - 2022-01-02

@Gameboygenius Pretty sure the fulminating platinium video actually had a 0% yield. But time is so warped I don't recall when it came out.

Patrick Radvanyi - 2021-01-07

when you did the acid test you should try combining HCl with nitric acid like in aqua regia. the perchlorate has both strong oxidizing properties and chlorine so maybe a mix of the two acids could recreate it

Soulan Bladon - 2021-01-02

this channel makes me happy, i dont understand chemistry but god damn this is fun

Phil Courteney - 2021-01-10

Your channel definitely deserves to be huge, fkn definitely on par with smartereveryday, slowmoguys, backyardscientist etc...mate I really hope you get the love you deserve!

redxpen - 2021-01-02

Aw, dont be so hard on yourself. This is just as relatable as grape soda. Everyone knows what perchlorates are

Kyle Eames - 2021-07-01

I’m surprised you didn’t calculate its detonation velocity. That would be a great detail for us über nerds out there.

Ethan Black - 2021-01-03

So excited to watch this! I wish you would make more bit it is understandable. Love the content!
I comment to help statistics
Surprisingly relatable

Dingle Jack - 2022-01-20

RDX stands for "royal demolition explosive". I know this because, much like you, I made all sorts of explosives when I was younger. I worked in a lab while in college so had access to all sorts of reagents so I did the classics like nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, TNT, ETN, and RDX- all in small, experimental quantities of course. I should say I attempted RDX but without 100% "white" HNO3 I couldn't get there.

James Barclay - 2021-12-21

Wonder if you could use a nuclear magnetic resonance spectrometer to figure out what you’re looking at? It wouldn’t tell you about the crystal structure, but I think you’d get an estimate for bond energy. Combine that with some well tuned calorimetry and you could probably start looking at stoichiometry.

dara gol - 2021-01-02

You could calculate the detonation velocity of the new explosive with the frame rate, the time and the distance the wave travelled. If the detonation velocity turns out to be very high it might be more attractive to study

Explosions&Fire - 2021-01-02

I did, but it's pretty low, like 500m/s range. I don't think it's proper conditions for it to achieve det velocity I guess, I don't know. But yeah, proper explosive speeds when properly pressed are like 5000m/s which is way too fast even for 30000 fps

Nathan Woo - 2021-01-03

From the page shown it seems they had trouble safely synthesizing it. If you're up for it maybe you could discover a way to better way too synthesize it. Like an oil bath. With that being said it seems there's less than a 10 degree room for error.