CuriousMarc - 2023-08-15
We repair a 12.4 GHz Nixie frequency counter plugin, the HP 5255A. It takes a double length episode to get it to behave, and you won't believe what we find at the end. 5245L Repair-a-thon Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-_93BVApb5_MQBUOVLgdKCaUPY1zaPh_ My HP 5255A manual high resolution scan: https://archive.org/details/hp-5255-a-frequency-converter-operating-and-service-manual-05255-9022-may-1967 Further documentation on my website: https://www.curiousmarc.com/instruments/hp-5245l-nixie-counter#h.ixw2jz3t1jtb Stuff that supports the channel: - Amazon links for the tools I use in the lab (supports the channel if you buy from there) https://www.curiousmarc.com/amazon-links - Channel merch on Teespring: https://teespring.com/stores/curiousmarcs-store - Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/curiousmarc Our lovely sponsors - PCBWay: fast turn PCBs, https://www.pcbway.com - Electro-Rent: https://www.electrorent.com - Keysight: test instruments: https://www.keysight.com - Samtec: connectors: https://www.samtec.com - R&D Microwaves: https://rdmicrowaves.com Get more technical info on the companion site: https://www.curiousmarc.com Contact info: https://www.youtube.com/curiousmarc/about 00:00 Summary of previous episodes 00:53 The very broken 12.4 GHz plugin 02:19 Operating principle (with elevator music) 06:30 Opening the unit 09:35 Faulty video amp? 12:53 Debugging the Automatic Gain Control 15:48 Debugging the bias 17:32 RF self-oscillation hell! 22:11 Nursing the amp back to life 25:00 Debugging the power meter circuits 32:45 Debugging the gate extender 37:56 Finally measuring microwaves! 39:20 Discovery of another video amp issue 42:12 Debugging the weird low frequency suckout 47:37 Plot twist: RF mixer surprise! 52:22 Did we finally repair it? 55:42 Epilogue: comparing with another plugin
As someone who's never really taken a dive into the pool of analogue electronics (I'm foremost a SW engineer but I dabble in digital electronics) - these vintage electronics repair videos are awesome and would you know but I now have a much greater understanding of RF after following you for all these years...
Also we who are watching these videos have a much longer attention timespan than ~10 minutes so don't worry about making short videos - in fact please do more 1+ hour videos! I'm sure people here will agree.
$5 for that plugin surprised me but I guess there aren't many buyers out there, hence the very low price. Can't even buy a beer for that in my neck of the woods...
Thanks for keeping all that hardware alive for the future generations - and for sending less electronics to the landfills!
This man speaks the whole truth
Agree with the longer videos! I really love it when you go deep into a project.
Yeah, you can do a lot even on modern electronics. Our TV crapped out 10 years ago and I was told I'd have to get a new one. Instead of spending $800 on a new TV, I broke out the meters, replaced 2 $4 caps, and it's worked great for the last 10 years...
@@johnvanantwerp2791 absolutely. I did the sams with my Xbox One psu, totally crapped the bed audible power surge on every boot followed by hard crash. 4 1600uf caps later and ive got over 100 hours of uptime since. FIX. YOUR. OWN. STUFF.
Yeah, we might need it to go back to the moon again. Or even relaunch modern civilization after a nuke attack. You just never know.
Those 12.4GHz plugins were famously unreliable and were generally fixed by swapping subassemblies. My guess is that the front end got blown up and the other bad modules were swapped in because it was dead anyway and it was quicker and simpler than doing component level repairs. Then at some point when it was being finally written off it was reassembled using whatever screws they could find just so it looked like a complete unit.
Yes, that was clearly a parts unit that was reassembled to sell on eBay to an unsuspecting CuriousMarc...
Sometimes in the seventies?
You would be surprised how long a lot of this stuff hung on, especially in companies that were dealing with federal contracts. I can remember using that counter and plugin in the mid '80s - because that was what was called out in the test procedure, and as long as you had a working unit it was easier to just use it than change the documentation. Some other instruments (like the HP8640B signal generator) were still in use in the '90s for certain applications because they were integrated into test setups in a way that made them very hard to replace. @@afberglund2764
@@CuriousMarc The one you repaired does match the colour scheme of the counter though so it's got that going for it, which is nice ;-)
@@zyeborm I like that positive way of thinking. 1960 colors for the win!
That 1 hour went by quick. Don't be afraid to put out a longer video. It's almost 3 AM here, guess I better get some sleep. Thanks for the great content. (BTW $5.00 for a plugin, wow to think how much it cost in1966)
I agree, same here
probably like a small house? hehe
Well, we can get the price straight from the 1967 catalog: HP 5245L base unit: $2950, which in 2023 dollars is $27,000. And the HP 5255A 12.4 GHz plugin: $1650, which is $15,100 in current dollars. I think I got a good deal on the 2nd plugin...
Loved the long video. 👍 worth doing every now and again. Thanks Marc, love your work 😝
@@CuriousMarc In 1967 dollars, you paid roughly 55 cents for the second plug in!
Ah, for a return to the days when HP equipment was designed to work and be repairable for fifty years, and not e.g. stop scanning because the attached printer has the wrong sort of ink in it. Oh well, at least my HP calculators still work, complete with RPN operation that stops anyone ever borrowing them twice :D
Nicely done, Marc; nicely done.
The HP that made that test gear and the HP that makes those printers are not even remotely the same company.
You've been watching Louis Rossmann too, haven't you?
This is “true crime” for me - fantastic!
As a mere tech (audio), I’m childishly proud of one detail that I guessed right. At the very start when the video amp was acting up, the “magic finger” probing gave it away - failing or no isolation beneath the board. To me that was 10 tense minutes until you pointed that out.
The studio I worked at had a HP scope and a generator (like yours), but what tickles me most is that Weller soldering station. Man, I had to put in hundreds of hours through the years using the same one.
You and your team do admirable and important work, besides the video documentation. Best of luck, and huge thanks from 🇳🇴!
That point where the missing diode only allows functionality by unhooking the corresponding signal at the other end and your mentioning it being like an 8 cylinder engine that is running on 4 cylinders took me back to a high school memory from around 1974.
A friend of mine was in his Karmann Ghia waiting for the traffic light to change and we stopped behind him. I jumped out, opened his engine compartment and pulled a spark plug wire loose, nothing, no change. So I pulled another one and yet it idled fine. The lights changed and we followed him back to school and when he got out he wanted to know what I did to make his engine run better.
Turns out that engine ran better with only two cylinders firing than with two spark plug wires reversed. Purely a coincidence that I pulled the two reversed wires loose.
Hahaha i know about getting the plug wires in the wrong order, isnt a couple of the wires the same length or something? Who knows how hard it was on the engine firing at the wrong time.
@@MichaelOfRohan I suspect that they were aftermarket plug wires and all the same (and excessive) length.
It's not unusual that reversing two plug wires results in firing during the exhaust stroke which does result in the piston seeing force in the wrong direction, but with the exhaust valve open. Not good for bearings, connecting rods or power. But no where near as bad as firing during the compression stroke.
Longest video yet? you are spoiling us.
Lesson learned, next time just go in a fleamarket with 5 bucks 😂
And I thought my floppy controller was kicking my rear, boy this one has been a pain.
12.4 GHz? Wasn’t that like ALL the hertz at the time? No wonder it hertz so much to repair. ;-)
Big red writing “do not attempt to disassemble cavity”. Marc: let’s disassemble. :-)
Thanks for making the documents available on line, it's great to be able to download the circuits and play along at home.
I love longer video's as I've got lots of time, and your never too old to learn.
Used up to 18GHz in our test chamber but never looked at how the older equipment got around the limitations of the components.
The long videos are great !....squeak !!!!!
Well hi @@andymouse
I have a masters degree in E.E. but this multi-GHz black magic stuff is still beyond me. When wiring turns into plumbing, I am out. A friend of mine, who graduated in the same year (1993), works for a company that makes radar sensors for range finding, automatic doors and self flushing urinals (lol). When I see his ceramic substrate prototype boards with those weird and gold plated geometric shapes and randomly placed metal blocks with hundreds of randomly placed screws in them (yes, of course I know that there is nothing random about it...), I think of some kind of demons you have to worship to be able to understand that...
RF engineering is all about having sufficient chickens and goats for the necessary sacrifice...
"when wiring turns into plumbing" HAHAHAHAHA ROTFL 🤣🤣, it's like he says "the black art of electronics engineering" indeed
@@neilbarnes3557 I'm a software dev. A fellow dev once said to me: "It really depends upon your project’s DFQ (Dissected-Frog Quotient), followed by your cauldron-burn and fire-bubble.". I think that might be the closest equivalent to RF magic i'm getting in my line of work.
Microwave engineering is more like musical instrument engineering. Wind instruments violins things that vibrate based on what they're made of, how big they are, etc
Agreed! Fixed a RF pulse generator, it was relatively easy until the 2ns setting.
The 1ns did some rf black magic with several loops in a ceramic substrate.
The solution was adding a label:
"Works*" (Up to 2ns)😂
A coax cable which is open circuit one end will appear as a short circuit at the other when the length of the coax (including velocity factor) is a quarter wavelength. It's a fundamental feature of coax cables used as quarter wave transformers although that is not the intended use in this case. A reminder of the many hours spent troubleshooting circuit boards of different types over the years. Great video. Thank you
Not just coax cables but transmission lines in general
... and waveguides and quarter wave coatings on lenses to make them anti-reflective. The refractive index of the coating is the square root of the RI of air (~1) times the RI of the glass substrate.
Not gonna lie.. i will keep this video until my child go to sleep and I will enjoy every single second of it!
Not only to repair it but to make it better? That's Marc for you. Great video. Thanks.
I always especially enjoy the parts when modern components are TOO good and it turns out the engineers in the 1960 used some of the design/manufacturing problems of their components to make the circuit work. A bit like a car engineer going "We can't make the rev limiter work, but it's fine. The carburator is so crappy that it will NEVER go above 5000 rpm anyway.".
So satisfying to watch your video's Marc! When you said 'wish me luck' when opening the microwave cavity i really was on the edge of my seat and wishing we'd see the cause of the dip! Better than any murder mystery!
Thanks for your entertaining and very educational video's!
This one is going to be fun!
You tell me in an hour... The end is quite a plot twist.
@@CuriousMarc Just remember your viewers may have a different definition of fun than you :)
Nah. We all adore chasing arcane bugs, only to find at the end that someone evil purposely planted and hid the fault in there. That IS the definition of fun on this channel!
Oh my, that was a sneaky fault!
@@CuriousMarc It was too late for me to watch it last night, but that is some sneaky problems! A piece of cardboard and a missing diodge!
Your videos are great, Marc. I love the deep dives, the electronic archaeology and the repairs. I'm learning so much, thank you.
Great video. The debug takes however long it takes to resurrect the unit, the video takes however long it takes to tell the tale. So great to see these old units brought back to life. Back in the 80s I used to have a collection of 50s/60s tech, watching this makes me nostalgic that I should have held on to it all.
In chapter 3 operating principals I got serious dejavu from the recent 100Ghz Signal Path video :)
It always heartens me to catch a glimpse of that lovely Juno in the background 😊 you are a man of infinite taste, sir!
Ty for the extra long video! Now I don't have to click a new video for an hour. Thank you for the treat.
What I would do about the insulation under the screwed down board is find a thick nylon or tough red paper and make one, you could have it done on a laser cutting to cut the insulation and get factory look insulation. The metal standoffs is very shallow!
But good job on getting the electronics thief mystery solved. :) What a good show.
My favorite thing about your channel is my endless amazement at 1960s technology. I was born too late
I'm directing all the skeptics who don't believe in the Apollo missions to this channel. I don't expect them to change their minds, but there's always hope for everyone.
I recently read a comment on another channel where the person was convinced the moon landing was faked because, after all, how did they live stream from the moon before the Internet?
I hope they were joking but, sadly, I suspect they were serious. I thought about directing them to Marc's explanation of the Apollo video system but decided it probably wasn't worth the effort.
56:36 is so funny and true... One's trash another's treasure. I saw a Youtuber dig up a C64 from the mud and restore it, knowing that perfectly working ones are thrown away because the owner won't bother selling them for a couple of bucks.
Here is a conspiracy for you:
What if the newly acquired unit is also missing a diode and that's why they are performing similarly? We may never know :D
In fairness I haven't checked, but it would also have the dip, which is not the case. Both instruments are way more sensitive than the spec by the way. But what's an internet without conspiracies?
@@CuriousMarcnot if the same terminal is disconnected!
Cutting off half of the dark magic, and it still works, THAT'S dark magic.
Very nice fault finding. I could almost swim beside you, but as soon I am alone I sink like a stone ☺
Another fascinating video repairathon Thanks Marc. I dont care how long your videos are Im glued to them from start to finish!
I love HP kit. But not like Marc. He’s having such fun.
Returning 60s and 70s HP instruments to service is fantastic
When everything seems to work and there is still 20minutes of video to go...
“Here goes the longest repair video yet. So jump around using the chapter thingies”… Naaah, think not! No way I won’t watch this in one go 😊
The one you repaired has a much better colour match to the main unit than the "working" one!
Yes! There was a change in color in the 1970's that ushered in the Age of Beige, moving away from the post-war gray to the cream colored theme. The main instrument has the 1960's gray which matches the older plug in. The one I got at the flea market must be from the 1970's and has the cream color, which would have matched a main instrument from the same date. The plug in from episode 5 is also has the Age of Beige theme.
an absolute treat, sitting on the edge of my seat to debug the problem myself as you go along, and boom - missing component :)
The other kind of AGC :)
A magnificent work of electronic engineering. Coming from the audio and broadcast receivers world, RF electronics is pretty advanced stuff already, and anything that goes over 1GHz is black arts, haha!
Oh Mark I love your videos it's 6:59 a.m. I haven't want to sleep yet You've dropped this and I'm sitting here worrying with myself to watch the whole hour long video or to go to sleep 😂
I may have to rewatch tomorrow If I'm sure the elevator music will claim my sleepiness😅
Thanks to Usagi Electric for recommending this channel. Love this content.
Subscribed immediately. 👍
Oh boy, the day got better with a curiousmarc video!
Thank you lots for an entertaining and informative video. Hope you have an awesome day
Best video yet! When it comes to your repair video’s; the longer the better!!!
I sense a growing addiction here. I approve...
man you don't disappoint, this video was freaking fantastic!, one hour of pure GOLD, and also i learn a few things i had no idea!, thank you!
This is one I’m going to rewatch tonight. Awesome work of troubleshooting!
As always, simply fascinating… the black art of analog electronics on the bleeding edge.
It's great seeing you work through these problems Marc. Always learning from your videos. Thanks!
Loved the longer video
Well done Marc
I'm jealous that to have a local flea market selling this type of gear. I only have some of the plugins you've shown here, which I can run in my 5245L, I'm looking for an HP10536A adaptor so they can be used in my HP5360A computing counter.
Doctor Marc, another amazing repair!
Very impressive repair!
That was an epic episode, thoroughly enjoyed this!
@grahamjenkins1236 - 2023-08-20
"I went to the flea market and there was this guy selling plugins..." You must be living in paradise!