New Mind - 2019-11-14
Though more commonly known for its electro-chemical variant, a battery or accumulator is any device that stores energy. Batteries fundamentally allow us to decouple energy supply from demand. But a far lesser-known, mechanical based rechargeable battery based on flywheel energy storage or FESS is showing a resurgence of interest. SUPPORT NEW MIND ON PATREON https://www.patreon.com/newmind FOOTAGE USED “Stock footage provided by Videvo, downloaded from https://www.videvo.net” Loom Footage James Hargreaves - Spin Doctor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an4hi0knlaA Steam Engine 1897 Robb Armstrong Steam Engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpz5WmWpWZM Magnax Axial Flux Permanent Magnet Electric Motor / Generator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGu7XDapR58 Cisco DC2011-Texas: Flywheels for Backup Power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQirOFEygJQ Power Line Footage Website: http://www.beachfrontbroll.com
We have two of these at work. They are rotary UPSs. They are spun up with power from the grid. They are constantly spinning at 1800 rpm. Connected to generators, automatic transfer switches will switch to them whenever we loose the grid. It will provide 1.5 MW of power for 15 seconds. When grid power is lost not only do they provide power long enough for diesel generators to fire up but they clutch start their own diesel generators to keep them spinning. No batteries needed!
@Robby H I don't know if I'm missing something from your explanation and there could well be something to do with moving mass generating 'artificial gravity,' which is a layman's term to explain how gravity could be simulated in space by using other forces, such as centripetal force. Centrifuge is a word which was invented to name a product when the first centrifuge was invented for labs, the incorrect term for centripetal force, 'centrifugal force' came into existence as a result of this product name. The effect you've mentioned of a person weighing less if they stand on the equator due to centripetal force doesn't effect gravity in the slightest, the value of gravity an object exerts can only be altered by effecting the mass and density of the object. What is actually happening is due to the rotation of the earth centripetal force is created in the direction of travel, causing the person or object on the Earth to have an upwards force in the opposite direction to gravity, thus making the person or object lighter. It is the same principle as attaching a bungee to yourself and the other end to the ceiling with it stretch to exhibit an upwards force of 6 pounds on you, if you were stood on a set of scales you would now weigh 6 pounds less, gravity however would still be exhibiting the exact same amount of force on you. A person jumping is pushing off of the ground with enough force to jump, again gravity has remained the same, the person has simply generated an opposing force greater than gravity allowing them to jump, once the person has left the ground they are no longer producing an opposing force to gravity so they are slowed and the pulled back to Earth by gravity.
@Kane Worsnop omg. I think he's almost got it Watson.
@Kane Worsnop yeah it's really pretty simple. If I can make "artificial gravity" as you call it, then I can also do the opposite. Hard to imagine in the physics that surround us... especially considering you might need vast amounts of mass multiplied by momentum to effect things outside of it's relativity. But theoretically completely plausible.
Attach bungee cord...jump
Attach bungee cord, get a running start...jump..
Same result? Of course not. He had much more momentum to oppose gravity.
Now complicate this a hundred fold because bungees is a bad example.
Actually, that was a really bad example. Hard to use any example other than that which is mechanical and technologically advanced...which is actually going to give us physics of opposing gravity without aerodynamics, pressures, etc etc.
Whats the equivalent in whatt hrs
@Alex McKenna why is it a shame?
We live on a huge Flywheel called the earth.
don't give them any ideas
The world does not spin, don't believe NASA's bs.
@Obviously every single image of earth from outer space looks cgi.even to the untrained eye.
@Fahd Abdul Rahman yeah man I totally agree with you.
It's like viewing pictures from the copy and paste cloud crew😂
Look into the Dyson sphere. There is a theory that advanced civilizations could built a superstructure around their planets and harness the energy
I worked on one of these years ago but I could never breed the hamsters big enough or build the flywheel small enough to be effective.
@Chuck Itaway...
Reminds me of the "Mr. Ed" episode in which Wilbur has sneakers made for Mr. Ed, and catches his neighbor using a shortcut to win their races.
@Just A User or you use a foot driven flywheel, you'd be surprised how long they have been around and how any different tools can be powered off one.
Oh that is dark. High five.
On the upside...hamsters are entirely dark meat
125 lbs, 1 meter diameter, 800 RPM
Bicycle wheel, pedal it yourself.
Should be able to have a weight with a potential of 400 watts in 5minutes.
Should be able to get that up to 1000-1500 watts for 10 minutes of work out.
Without the centrifuge to charge up before generating power, you'll never achieve more then 200 watts constant, or 1500 watt 5 second burst.
But those 5 second burst wont matter, because 80% of the 1500 watts you push through your leg, will be put into just your foot to heat it up.
You can't struggle to get it up to speed, that's why you take 5-10 minutes.
Once over 800 RPM and you find your max velocity, immediately stop peddling and activate the electromagnetic breaks.
The better your electrical system, the faster you can pull all the power with still above 90% conversion from the centrifuge to whatever you want, batteries, motors, entertainment.
You wait and rest while it sucks the power out of the centrifuge, or you pedal at the same time, disconnecting your pedals from the centrifuge, and just using your pedals to move the machine itself to help your electric motors.
This way is more like, sprinting for 5minutes, then jogging a bit to calm your heart rate, then rest, Then do it again.
Each time giving you anywhere from 400-1500 watts depending on the velocity of the centrifuge.
Each time you double the speed, you quadruple the potential power.
These busses would behave quite weirdly when running into speed bumps or transitioning into steep slopes...
@thedillestpickle hey, more people willing to admit they are wrong after their own consideration without begging the person to do so is a quality I praise in people. Thanks for being awesome, even though it is probably easy for you to do with a great attitude like that.
In a gimbal setup this issue is not a problem. Just allow it to tilt 20 deg in both axis.
The issue isn't the gyro, that might be able to be overcome, it's the fact you are hauling around an extra ton or more. And it's not a mechanical battery is stored kinetic energy.
Would the earth turning around continuously be part of how it wears more than if didn’t turn?
There are self righting motorcycle concepts that use a flywheel for this reason. The (motorcycle) system is small enough to fit in cars, and the makers plan to sell them to specialized vehicle manufacturers.
There's a YouTube video where a jeep with tail hitch/cable couldn't tip over a motorcycle (with flywheel active).
I didn't hear it mentioned, but we do actually have a ginormous flywheel energy storage system in form of the rotating mass in the electric network, both the generators and the motors. This is not usually apparent, but powerplants do rely on this during switchover etc. and locally dealing with high inertia motors and variable frequency drives they can keep the dc bus energized as long as they spin.
Chernobyl???
@YodaWhat lol it would look like the ship from the cloverfield paradox
@Andrew Plough I did not see that movie, it had bad reviews. J.J.Abrams strikes again!
@christopher lobato we already use flywheel energy storage in space in the pointing systems.
@Greg Warner
Nice! I did not know. Now all they need is a manufacturing plant in space.
14:51 man he's loving his job
He's probably watched the "Top Gun" movie intro too many times.
@Skunk Bucket duh duh, duh duh, duhduhduhduhduh
@Stefan R Don't think, it doesn't suit you.
Life goals.
I was nearby a flywheel energy storage research and manufacturing building when one of them catastrophically failed causing a mechanical explosion that shot tons of twisted metal in all directions. Some of the metal fell through the ceiling where I was working. Luckily nobody was hurt. Any kind of mass energy storage will have issues like this however. Releasing tons of energy all at once is dangerous no matter what the technology is.
Imagine sitting with something similar to that between your thighs while traveling around 200 MPH. Ever wonder why modern top fuel dragsters have the drivers cockpit located forward of the engine? They weren’t always like that you know. Do an image search using “front engine dragster cockpit” and you will get the idea.
Batteries that swell and explode, storing large amounts of an flammable unstable liquid in the vehicles we drive, compressing highly flammable unstable gas in tanks and miles long lines of pipe. We already have this problem irregardless of the form it comes in, and probably always will.
@kcotte59 the news stories on it can be found on Google if you search: poway ca flywheel explosion
@kcotte59 And in 2005 in Missouri one of them had a wall collapse and nearly kill a few families when the full reservoir came down the hill it was on. Happened at night as well.
It was a 50 yeaar old stucture at the time built in the 1960s, much like the Cali ones. With failure cause by greed and carelessness shorting maintance and upgrades. Much like what has cause several of the recent California fires.
Make no mistake, those structure are as dangerous if not more so, then the flywheels. Flywheels will only damage a building or two, a Water Reservoir will destroy towns if not properly care for.
And fellows? According to the American Society of Civil Engineers' report most Dams, which these are classified as, are graded as a D, minus. Meaning alot of them need tender loving care and a few rebuilds.
But since that cost money that neither party wants to spend....
Why don't they just keep the flywheels in underground, vacuum sealed chambers?
Really nice introduction to a topic most of us are not familiar with. Seems one of the best technologies for grid storage.
Innovative*
Frank M its either kill some birds and bats or continue burning coal. gas. create nuclear waste. or dam rivers. there is no up side to any current technology, id prefer any system that does not accelerate climate change.
so advanced*
Aye
so natural*
A reasonable sized pumped hydro project can store gigawatt hours of energy. Gravity is reliable and water does not wear out.
@Robert Mills lol
@Taiwo Olaleye using waves to pump water up hill to storage only to be released back to the ocean
Water might not wear out but the turbines do. Pumped hydro is great but it's not a cure-all and the energy density is very low so you need a very large space to make use of it.
@Vink these are located where land is cheap and space is not a problem.
Lol who would have thought that the youtube comment section was full of physicists and electrical engineers
Let's talk about "reinventing the wheel"..... I've always hated that phrase.
Joe Sterling k
@calholli A rolling object and a wheel are not the same thing. The crucial innovation of the wheel is it's axle which makes it practical for transportation. A log or rock doesn't have an axle. The wheel is an invention.
Nahome Tesfay a log is it’s own axle.
@j p Not quite. The axle is the part you can connect with the rest of your machine with a bearing. Imagine you had a crate and two logs. If you tried to use the logs like rollers wouldn't be held in place with respect to the cart so you'd have to keep putting the logs back in place. The key innovation is to hold the logs in place (without restricting rotation) with an axle. Thanks for responding!
danballarin it means ‘a useless idea or a large waste of time/resources”. Used in the proper sense, it is a perfect phrase, conveying the ridiculousness of said endeavour. Though that is not to include the use of the words separate of them as a phrase, since the wheel has been reinvented many times, hence our use of pneumatic tires as just one example. I guess the use of a capitalisation ie “the Wheel”, for the concept and “the wheel” for the physical mechanical device is the proper way to differentiate the two.
At 06: 51 : The fast spinning vane wheel quits and has just left the 707 jet engine!
thanks!
06:51 your welcome
I bet the bus was fun going round a corner.
@G Guest < Even two counter rotating flywheels have some gyro effect (though less), they are mostly useful to prevent aircrafts to rotate on their own axis.
@Bill A I wonder what would happen when the bearings wear out😬
the charging system would be interesting if it was mechanical. one way clutch with a key near the center of the phone to hook into the charging key. Idk
Corned beef Gaming < It was a joke for a phone, you need massive flywheels in order to store any significant amount of energy. There was an experiment on buses with 1 meter diameter flywheels... didn't work out too well. lol
Haha. Easy to balance on a string though.
More like over a speed bump.
Elektromagnetic bearings do have losses additional to their supply current: Hysteresis and eddy current losses in the iron.
You can minimize those losses by using laminated magnets.
@kirk mcloren Thanks for the explanation.
@Ben Harris they already have. but the are costly
@Ben Harris That, too, is a force affected by entropy.
@you’re* One who would discriminate solely on pedantics is one who appears to others as not only less capable, but incapable, of learning.
It sounds like it's more of a capacitor than "battery"
why exactly?
@Udit Dey because of the use case. Flywheels and capacitors are used for short bursts of power
capacitors are batteries
I was hoping you would mention the accumulator battery hybrids too
I applied for an NSF grant in grad school to study these about a decade ago. The reviewers rejected it because it was a "naive idea"...
Sounds about right.
Because it is.
“Requires little to no maintenance”*
*provided preventative maintenance is performed at regular intervals
14:52
me when finally hired
So actually, the flywheel batteries are more like the big capacitors in a circuit ? Good for peak/burst demands, but not as good for continuous slow delivery ?
Electromagnetic flywheels....
That's some straight up steam punk stuff right there....
If they break into pieces it acts like a blast. Russian scientist suggest using wheel made from long tape rather than single piece wheel - that is much safer.
That's what's in the video also. They even put them underground 👍
@Simon Trotier I missed the point about steel stripe/tape...
@Агрон Департье I guess the idea was that instead of exploding into pieces, it might just (as it loses integrity) sort of unwind, thus dissipating the energy gradually. That's the way I got it, anyway.
The energy has to go somewhere,I had this crazy notion of charging small fragmenting bombs by lowering them into the Marianas trench and then sealing them, vs 1 Bar a pretty good pressure differential.
Or it would not explode, but lash around like a metallic whip, cutting people in half.
2019: our of despair we start putting in pullback motors in our cars
That's basically the definition of a Hybrid.
Reminds me of the toy cars of old days where you spun the tires real fast by dragging them across ground then let the take off.
Osiris02 oh yeah lol I forgot about those. You wind them up my rolling it forward over and over again
Kenner SSPs! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NxQf-aeDWk
ed brown yes
I had a set from the 70's called "Smash Up Derby" by Kenner, with cars that had a big flywheel you powered by pulling a toothed, plastic rip cord through. Great fun and also similar principal.
@Osiris02 Those are called "friction" motors. Basically a small flywheel that would spin up fast due to the gearing. A popular, somewhat larger sized toy were the "Mighty Mo" line of trucks. They used larger flywheels and extreme gear ratios so they had lots of torque, but very low ground speed.
Some of our wrist watches have windings that uses mechanical energy to power devices.
Some? A LOT of our watches have them. Every watch without a battery. Every clock.
@W Winterheart Tissot, Omega, and Seiko had watches in which rotation was used to load a battery. I have a Tissot PR 100 Autoquartz.
What comes around, goes around!
12:48 So you actually used 1m as the radius of the flywheel in stead of 0.5m to calculate the Mach number (at see lvl) of the outer surface. So the Mach number should be around 5.5. That's still fast though.
@Vincent Robinette, ... but I think they stated 37,000 rpm @12:50, so that's 4333 mph ~ Mach 5.6, as @K mentioned.
@snivesz32 That's the speed of the small flywheel used in the CVT for the Formula-1 race car. They don't state the diameter of that wheel, so I cannot make a calculation. They state that the flywheel in the bus turns 3,000 RPM, and that the wheel is 1 meter in diameter. My calculation is based on that.
One Cretan makes a comment and magically all the the other Cretans chase his tail!
@Andrew Delashaw Hopefully so New Mind CAN'T see it // transition from these great topics to that cheesy list of quantum-boredom that are always "live" on youtube as it is.
'Cretans' ??? Is that an in joke . . . . . .
I lived in Kinshasa and saw the recharging poles for the flywheel bus, but never saw a bus. Was told about them by some old guys in town...
Why did you show siemens sinamics drive in the video.
I recall hearing, many years ago, that the French telephone system used spinning devices to store energy (kinetic) - I would suggest as a power failure standby back-up.
Okay okay youtube I clicked on it finally, are you happy now? That video you keep on and on putting in my "suggestions" list
Awesome man so glad your still at it! Been busy with other things lately but when i get time i always look for one of your videos. If you keep this up i see no stopping you! To the Top my friend! Have you thought about doing a video introducing yourself? Or do you plan on staying in the shadows. Heck it’s worked for AvE! Lol it almost turns into its own thing. Just wanted to stop by and say hi
Everything was going great until the bus had to turn it's first corner.
I know what’s the best kind of renewable energy is fusion reactor like the ITER
4:21 the guy on the screen left <-- I am sure we all know a guy that looks like that haha ..oh how life is funny
["You can use Freon gas from refrigeration units by heating the gas up from absolute to 21°, to create very high pressures. Much like steam but at lower temperatures.
By
Stanley Meyer"]
If you float heavy weight on floats and let the high tide in any bay raise the weight, then you can use the gravity to create electricity on the way down.
3:12 Reminds me of the Ghost movie love scene!
4:45 If it works it'll be Flywheel Emergency Electrical System. 'FEES', like every other utility.
That's pretty awesome that an ancient tech is powering the study of fusion power :D
Pretty poetic, isn't it? The fundamentals and basics of physics and engineering really are as essential as every teacher/professor would have you believe. 😁
Im just going to lie down on the floor and admit most of this is over my head... but a small one is an important component of an invention i designed when i was young. I keep watching for it to appear, but nothing yet and its doubtful i will ever ever build a model. No dough Joe.
this reminds me of that toy car i played when i was a child.
Maybe we can just doom some mythical being to eternally roll rocks up a hill for us,
lmao
My 10yr old told me Syphilis was the guy rolling the rocks up the mtn! Yikes. Not guffawing out load was very difficult.
these have been around forever. they are burried deep underground in case they catastrophically fail...
It sounds like my hybrid car I correctly drive. (Taking plenty of time to decelerate at a stop sign, and not exceeding the speed limit so I can make green lights). Praise God for brave men like Elon Musk.
(me reading the title of this video): isn't that just a spring
I remember reading about the bus on Damn Interesting!
14:53 WTF
Thank you so much and was a very good episode never looked at the flywheel like that how could anybody give this a thumbs down so well put together some people have no respect
6:48 where is that picture from ?
Bear Naff - 2019-12-13
Little known fact - Kevin Costner bomb "Waterworld" was meant to actually save the world. The plan was to channel Kostner's profits to his brother, Dan, who ran US Flywheels. This company was working on a flywheel that stored useful amount of power in a carbon fiber flywheel rotating on permanent magnet bearings in a vacuum. The spec was to develop such a flywheel that could reach speeds of around 100,000 RPM. When the movie bombed, the investment was, alas, lost. The company folded decades ago.
James Karaganis - 2021-01-22
@Vincentius Did you read past the first line?
Lewis Johnson - 2021-01-26
Energy storage can’t “save the world”, only energy production
Josh Denham - 2021-03-07
One of my favorite movies!