NurdRage - 2024-04-21
These are my lab notes trying to make Oleum or Fuming Sulfuric Acid by amateur means. Turns out it is possible to do it with just a ceramic hotplate, sulfuric acid, and sodium bisulfate. Along with standard laboratory glassware. But so far the yield is around 13%. I'm trying to optimize it. The procedure is simply heat the sodium bisulfate on the ceramic hotplate and pyrolyze it until it becomes sodium pyrosulfate. Then let it cool and add in sulfuric acid. Distilling it again yields sulfur trioxide. Previous methods require much higher temperatures to pyrolyze the sodium pyrosulfate directly. Related videos: Purification of Sulfuric Acid by Distillation Revisited: https://youtu.be/0Gb9rM9BJ8I Lab notes - Making Oleum - Success (part 1): This Video Lab notes - Making Oleum - 20% yield improvement (Part 2): https://youtu.be/hUyJ6CibhSg Donate to NurdRage! Through Patreon (preferred): https://www.patreon.com/NurdRage Through Youtube Memberships: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIgKGGJkt1MrNmhq3vRibYA/join Twitter: https://twitter.com/NurdRage Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/NurdRage/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nurdrageyoutube/
Amateur chemistry always seems to take a healthy step forward when NurdRage uploads! Great work as usual, I'm gonna have to try this at some point once you've perfected the procedure!
Absolutely!
I think it's funny to watch NurdRage's dioxane video and hear him say "it's hard for the amateur to get elemental sodium" and think "you're wrong!"... When it is NurdRage that made it so much more accessible.
LabCoatz, I also need to start supporting you (and a few others) so I can have my name at the end of other videos that represent legitimate advancements in amateur chemistry like this one.
Hopefully one day I'll figure something out that is worth sharing, but thank you both for being gems in the wonderful ecosystem of YouTube amateur chemists!
True.
Extractions&Ire ain't bad either
Agreed
а я сразу повторяю
The donated hot plate comes to the rescue again! Yeah!! 🎉
What if you take e.g. frying pan, fill it with sand and put glassware on that....and continue with regular kitchen hotplate....then hotspots should not be an issue
@@great__successit works, but doesn’t have stirring and a lot of cooking hot plates and electric frying pans don’t give constant temperature. They turn on and off to stay within a temperature range.
@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 Induction cook tops, including the portable ones don't use PWM and offer a much more consistent temperature range. Or in some cases they do, but the on/off times are varied by milliseconds over the course of a second, like LED diming, which is essentially constant. But either way, if you have a lot of thermal mass from sand and a cast iron pan, the temperature fluctuations should be smoothed out
The tried and true amateur approach of using a gas torch can also be effective for reaching high temperatures
@@Spencergolde Induction most certainly DOES use PWM. I've got quite a few and at lower temperatures the on/off timing can be anywhere from 2 on 10 off to 5 on 2 off. It's only once you get up above a medium setting that they use amperage control to vary the output. They also can't regulate the temperature of the pan or contents by degree, only by the glass temperature where the pan is contacting it. Induction also has the same issue of not having magnetic stirring, which is necessary when dealing with solutions that are prone to bumping.
An old friend of mines dad had a sulfuric acid plant next to this big oil refinery... we were taking and he said they made tanker cars of "Oleum".. He told me they had a leak of oleum gas one time and most of the workers cars in the parking lot got "Frosted"..
Oh no
There's trains full of this stuff? That's a bummer lol
You’re really pushing the limits with what can be done as a home chemist! Thank you for the inspiration NR ☺️
Great to see you making videos and well excplained!
+feeding the hungry algorithm
You, sir, have a talent for filling voids in the common-chem knowledge-base. Thank You Very Much for this and all your work. Our knowledge is our greatest treasure.
If my 8 grade chemistry teacher was half as skilled at teaching as NerdRage I would probably followed that line of education and became a real chemistry lab worker.
поддержу вас.У нас отрсль развалили
@@bigjay875да.грамотно донести это очень важно
When I was an undergrad (late 70's) it was also "somewhat infamous in chemistry for being one of the key precursors" to a visit to the student health clinic. Even the cocky A+ folks obviously treated this stuff with great respect.
i absolutely think you are just that good and worth the support. i just dont have the funds to hardly support myself or i would absolutely hand it over like fry from futurama much love bro thanks for helping me learn so much i wish i could somehow get into chemistry as a job. ive never even taken a chemistry class at any point in my life and i feel like i know so much thanks to you and a few other incredible chemist youtubers
к сожалению вам только кажется.А работать...Скачайте учебники 7.8.9.10.11 классы и университет программу.Если осилите за пару лет.То сможете и работать.Только в говно не лезьте.Посадят причем быстро.В россии у нас много 20-30 лет не знающих химию.через интернет получают оборудование и реактивы...От 1 недели до 6 месяцев и они в тюрьме-срок:12 лет...
A fun reaction I've used Oleum for was to brominate the bay carbons of perylene TCA, which forces a twist on the molecule. It resulted in a beautiful brightly fluorescent, dichromic solution in DCM and was the first step of a more interesting synthesis. It was a simple step using Oleum as a solvent and Aluminum Bromide as the brominating agent.
I hope nurdrage trys this. It sounds pretty cool ! 😎
This is a huge breakthrough even with the yield. Great job as always, looking forward to seeing how far you can take it.
Sand bath with a blanket of glass wool should be fine enough to get temperatures up. Great and novel synthesis vids as always!
I wish I'd had a teacher like you when I took my old chemistry course. Maybe I'd have pursued it as a career. Either way, love seeing how much effort you put into making them processes available outside professional labs (with proper safety measures in place)
Admiring the dedication, keep up the great work, doctor!
It's incredible that this actually works. Very nice to see.
You do great research-grade videos.
Love seeing a new NurdRage video, especially when you are exploring new territory.
I love your lab notes videos. I started watching your videos when I lost my lab after college about 14 years ago, and it made me feel like I was still in the lab doing what I loved. 14 years later, I'm almost financially ready to invest in equipment, and you're really putting a hotplate under my flask about it.
тогда вперед!
You are the best when it comes to chemistry videos.
Always a pleasure to see your lab notes.
as always, ameture chemistry makes another massive step forwards, all thanks to this man
wonderful, love the update doc. thanks for this. i can't wait to see the optimized procedure you decide upon.
your series on nitric acid was phenomenal and indispensable to hobby chemists and professionals alike. i used your instruction to make WFNA to post a demonstration of the dangers of various chemicals versus various common forms of laboratory gloves/PPE. i've made chloroplatinic acid, azeotropic HBr, and sodium metal using your procedures and regularly utilize the products of those efforts in my own research.
you are the patron saint of hobby chemistry and one of the most brilliant, humble, honest (in critique of your work and your own errors, even though your errors are almost always ones any chemist would consider excusable), and never cease to keep the average hobby chemist in mind in all you do.
thanks for all you've given us over the years, doc. seriously. you are one of the reasons i'm now a professional degree-holding, not-enough-money making chemist today.
we love ya, NR!
these are my favorite kind of videos.
terrifyingly fascinating
well done sir
I find it an amazing coincidence that you uploaded a video about oleum in the same day my procrastination made read about a class of compounds called borosulfates which analogues to silicates, but with boron relacing silicon. Oleum is one of the main reagents used in their synhtesis.
Truly a balm for my soul, your lab notes ❤ plz keep em coming!
Very interesting! If you want some interesting experiment with oleum, try to dissolve sulfur in it. It form blue S8(2+) cation. Se and Te also behave similarly, but they react even with regular conc. H2SO4 - Te needs mild heating, Se needs cca 200 °C. They form magenta Te4(2+) and green Se8(2+). Se8(2+) can be oxidized to yellow Se4(2+) by SeO2. Iodine also dissolves in oleum to green I2(+). Polycations of Br and Cl are also known, but idk if they can be made from oleum and Br2 or Cl2.
Something many people were waiting for
NurdRage, those synthesis videos are amazing and incredibly useful.
I feel much of the stuff you put on Youtube would also deserve to be made into scientific papers. (Like your menthol-catalyzed sodium synthesis, for instance).
You would think all would be said and done about the preparation of such basic chemicals, even on a small scale. Yet you manage to significantly improve existing methods!
Sweet video!
Thanks for good video
this is awesome!
been watching your channel for maybe 16 years now, still my favorite chemistry youtuber
Same here. He didn't turn into a commercialized annoying parody of himself and I respect him for that.
I'm thrilled! Keep us updated, this is interesting and innovative. Thanks!
Grab a coffee, thanks! Love to watch; to dumb (&/| smart ;) to try! :)
Thank you so much!
Love the news
Ya sold me on building a Stainless steel fume hood as well as building in a scrubbing system so the trees around my lab don't get fried 👍
You are so amazing, NurdRage!
Wow. Just wow. This is impressive.
Acid videos are amazing. Yours is the best channel on YouTube
Cannot wait to see how this turns out!
Great work as usual. Will follow and await further developments.
You never dissappoint. Great stuff!
Ive always wanted to see the old way of making sulfuric acid the destructive distalliation of iron sulfate. I know this isn't it but it would be a fun project to consider
Adrian's lab (YT aka Plastic Raincoat) had a nice video on S03 quite a few years back, before his cool lab got destroyed by robbers, so sad. The video is still on his current channel Adrian's Chemistry Lab. He generated 02 (wet method) then passed the dried 02 over some burning sulfur then over heated platinized asbestos. If I recall the heating was only need to start the catalytic reaction. I would certainly want to make it a negative pressure draw through system with a sodium carbonate quench at the end of the line after the Oleum receiver (cooled).
Chromium oxide is a viable catalyst in place of platinum during oxidation steps. Ostwald nitration is one example of this, and a quick google search suggests that it also displays good activity against SO2.
Thanks for the chill videos
Just feeding the insatiable monster that must be fed. Amazing video as always.
Good to C U back man.
It would be interesting to see the damage on a patted dry pork chop to drive home just how dangerous this stuff is
Incredible!
Sweet.
Best chemical channel!
@NurdRage - 2024-04-21
Update: I've been able to get the yield up to 22% in my latest experiments. So i'm still working on it.
@warmonger12z - 2024-04-21
Question: why are you making oleum? Some interesting syntheses coming up?
@NurdRage - 2024-04-21
@@warmonger12z No special reason really, just wanted to take on the challenge. I didn't like the existing methods that were too hard, or too dangerous, or too expensive. Maybe i could contribute to the amateur literature and making it accessible with relatively modest equipment.
@warmonger12z - 2024-04-21
@@NurdRage fair do's
@Dr_Mario2007 - 2024-04-21
Not too shabby for doing it by ear, actually. I would be a bit concerned if Oleum concentrate is quite high as it's potentially possible to ignite anything organic like what fuming Nitric acid do. As for explosives like gun cotton, Oleum is basically like extra Sulfuric acid for free, so you won't need too much Sulfuric acid to make it workable. (And I definitely don't recommend doing so - I have done Nitroglycerin as it's stupid easy to make it so I knew the risks in making it, so again, don't do it unless you know safety rules, it's strict for a good reason - still it's kind of hilarious that this exact explosive is useful, even in medical settings - they are naturally desensitized, it's usually used for heart attack prevention).
@HellTriX - 2024-04-21
man that stuff looks scary lol